Pali chanting for deceased

[Phattu]

Dear All,

Please indicate if you happen to know a pali chant/recitation that I could read for the deceased.
Many thanks,
Phattu

[Dhammanando]

I think the Salla Sutta is the most appropriate.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

My Exposition of the Salla Sutta may be helpful.

[nmz]

I think you might see this helpful.
https://suttacentral.net/en/kp6
https://suttacentral.net/pi/snp2.1

[Kumara]

Please indicate if you happen to know a pali chant/recitation that I could read for the deceased.

"For the deceased"? Assuming they are still hanging around (They usually are apparently.) perhaps a talk/chant on forgiveness and letting go would be good.

[waterchan]

I think the Salla Sutta is the most appropriate.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html

https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.57" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I thought they chanted the remembrances:
Jarādhammomhi jaraṃ anatīto....
Vyādhidhammomhi vyādhiṃ anatīto....
Maraṇadhammomhi maraṇaṃ anatīto....
Sabbehi me piyehi manāpehi nānābhāvo vinābhāvo....

[Dhammanando]

I think the Salla Sutta is the most appropriate.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html

https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.57
I thought they chanted the remembrances:
Jarādhammomhi jaraṃ anatīto....
Vyādhidhammomhi vyādhiṃ anatīto....
Maraṇadhammomhi maraṇaṃ anatīto....
Sabbehi me piyehi manāpehi nānābhāvo vinābhāvo....

I'm not very familiar with the Buddhist funeral customs outside of Thailand, so I don't know whether the Five Subjects for Frequent Reflection are used anywhere. In Thailand they form part of the morning chanting in most monasteries, but I've never heard them chanted at a funeral.

I have heard that the Sri Lankan custom is to recite the Salla Sutta at funerals and this strikes me as a much more reasonable practice than what we do in Thailand. As there's nothing that can be done for the deceased, a funeral should serve as an occasion for salutary reflection by the living. The Salla Sutta serves this purpose.

In Thailand, however, the custom is to recite the mātikās to the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka, a practice that's aimed at the benefit of the deceased rather than the people attending the funeral. The underlying belief is that the spirit of the deceased is hanging around the coffin and needs to be urged to go and get reborn. And so the chanting of the Abhidhamma is aimed at informing the spirit that the rūpadhammas that make up its corpse are no use to it anymore and so it's time to let go of attachment to it and move on. Given the Theravada's rejection of the doctrine of an intermediate state between death and rebirth, the custom is obviously an irrational superstition. There's also a certain irony to the Thai practice, considering that the Theravadin rejection of the intermediate state heresy is actually contained in one of the books of the Abhidhamma!

[waterchan]

Given the Theravada's rejection of the doctrine of an intermediate state between death and rebirth, the custom is obviously an irrational superstition. There's also a certain irony to the Thai practice, considering that the Theravadin rejection of the intermediate state heresy is actually contained in one of the books of the Abhidhamma!

I don't know exactly where in the Canon this intermediate state is rejected, but isn't it conceivable that this intermediate being that supposedly needs to be ushered into letting go of the rupa dhammas is a short-lived peta? I've heard some traditional Theravadins say that some hungry ghosts can be liberated from that state upon receiving metta, or rejoicing in the merits of others, or something like that.

[waterchan]

In Thailand, however, the custom is to recite the mātikās to the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka

Gosh, my deepest compassion for the poor dead being who has to listen to this. That would definitely compel him to get reborn immediately. A good strategy from the Thais!

[Dhammanando]

I don't know exactly where in the Canon this intermediate state is rejected,

In the Kathāvatthu.

https://suttacentral.net/en/kv8.2

but isn't it conceivable that this intermediate being that supposedly needs to be ushered into letting go of the rupa dhammas is a short-lived peta?

No.

When Thais invite monks to their homes to chant the Abhidhamma Mātikā, it is for a winyaan, not a short-lived preta, that they are doing it. A winyaan (the Thai pronunciation of viññāṇa) is the state in which a person supposedly finds himself (a spirit, ghost, wraith, or whatever) after he has died but before he has been reborn. In this state he apparently possesses the sense-faculties (in rural Thai homes before the monks start chanting, the village headman will rap seven times on the coffin to get the winyaan's attention), and so it's not easy to say why the Thais don't simply classify it as a preta or a terrestrial deva or something, but the fact is they don't.

I've heard some traditional Theravadins say that some hungry ghosts can be liberated from that state upon receiving metta, or rejoicing in the merits of others, or something like that.

I think that goes beyond what the texts support. They seem to allow only for the possibility of an alleviation of the sufferings of one particular sub-species of preta. Not a liberation from the preta state itself.

[Dhammanando]

In Thailand, however, the custom is to recite the mātikās to the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka

Gosh, my deepest compassion for the poor dead being who has to listen to this. That would definitely compel him to get reborn immediately.

It's not that bad! In any case the chanting takes only about ten minutes at the most. One will find it done in many different styles, some of them quite beautiful and others an absolute cacophany. Something like this is probably the commonest:

phpBB .

[waterchan]

In Thailand, however, the custom is to recite the mātikās to the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka

Gosh, my deepest compassion for the poor dead being who has to listen to this. That would definitely compel him to get reborn immediately.

It's not that bad! In any case the chanting takes only about ten minutes at the most. One will find it done in many different styles, some of them quite beautiful and others an absolute cacophany.

Oh, right, you said they chant the "mātikās to the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka", not "the seven books of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka". That would definitely kill him twice over there and then.

[waterchan]

Given the Theravada's rejection of the doctrine of an intermediate state between death and rebirth, the custom is obviously an irrational superstition. There's also a certain irony to the Thai practice, considering that the Theravadin rejection of the intermediate state heresy is actually contained in one of the books of the Abhidhamma!

In this video, at 1:18 Bhante Gunaratana says that there is a period of "at least nine, ten months" between successive rebirths. Would this not imply an intermediate state? And is there a canonical source to his statement?

phpBB .

[Dhammanando]

In this video, at 1:18 Bhante Gunaratana says that there is a period of "at least nine, ten months" between successive rebirths. Would this not imply an intermediate state?

No. The schools that taught the antarābhava doctrine posited an intermediate state in between death and conception. Bhante Gunaratana is talking about the gestation period between conception and birth.

And is there a canonical source to his statement?

"It is the rule that whereas other women carry the child in their womb for nine or ten months before giving birth, it is not so with the Bodhisatta’s mother, who carries him for exactly ten months before giving birth. That is the rule"
(Mahāpadāna Sutta, DN. 14)

[Phattu]

Many thanks for your attention and contributions to my post.
Actually I was looking for something to the benefit of the deceased and not the people attending the funeral, and my understanding of the salla sutta is that it is for the latter.