Heretic

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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Ceisiwr
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Heretic

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings,

Is there an equivalent Pali word for “heretic” or “heresy”?
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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Sam Vara
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Re: Heretic

Post by Sam Vara »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 am Greetings,

Is there an equivalent Pali word for “heretic” or “heresy”?
Micchādiṭṭhi?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Heretic

Post by Ceisiwr »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:16 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 am Greetings,

Is there an equivalent Pali word for “heretic” or “heresy”?
Micchādiṭṭhi?
That was my thinking but I wondered if there were any specific terms.
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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Sam Vara
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Re: Heretic

Post by Sam Vara »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:19 am
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:16 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 am Greetings,

Is there an equivalent Pali word for “heretic” or “heresy”?
Micchādiṭṭhi?
That was my thinking but I wondered if there were any specific terms.
There might be others, but that seems reasonable and is given as a direct translation by the concise PED.
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mikenz66
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Re: Heretic

Post by mikenz66 »

Perhaps try the Kathāvatthu?
https://suttacentral.net/kv

Though that seems to largely just repeat "micchā" ("you are wrong"). :sage:

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Srilankaputra
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Re: Heretic

Post by Srilankaputra »

For 'heresy', may be - saddhammappatirūpakaṃ

For 'heretic' may be - Para puggala

Tañhi, bhikkhu, musā yaṃ mosadhammaṃ, taṃ saccaṃ yaṃ amosadhammaṃ nibbānaṃ.

Tasmā evaṃ samannāgato bhikkhu iminā 
paramena saccādhiṭṭhānena samannāgato hoti.

Etañhi, bhikkhu, paramaṃ ariyasaccaṃ yadidaṃ

amosadhammaṃ nibbānaṃ
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Dhammanando
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Re: Heretic

Post by Dhammanando »

A Buddhist belonging to an heretical school is called a paravādī (lit. "other-doctrinist"), as opposed to sakavādī ("own-doctrinist"). Both terms are indexical, i.e., their referent will change according to who is using it. And so in the Kathāvatthu and its commentary the sakavādīs are those holding to the Theravāda understanding, while the paravādīs are those holding to the understanding of the Sabbatthivāda, Andhaka, Kassapiya, etc. But in a Sabbatthivāda text the Theravādīs would be among those classed as paravādīs.

As for non-Buddhists, there's no end of terms for these: bāhirakas, titthiyas, aññatitthiyas, paṇḍaraṅgas, micchādiṭṭhikas, vitaṇḍavādīs, natthikas, diṭṭhigatikas, lokāyatikas, aceḷakas, nigaṇṭhas, jaṭilas, jaṭādharas, pāsaṇḍikas, hetukas, etc.
Svākkhātaṃ brahmacariyaṃ, sandiṭṭhikam’akālikaṃ,
Yattha amoghā pabbajjā, appamattassa sikkhato.


“The holy life is well proclaimed,
directly visible, immediate,
Where not in vain is the going forth
of one who trains heedfully.”
— Sela Sutta
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Heretic

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:55 am A Buddhist belonging to an heretical school is called a paravādī (lit. "other-doctrinist"), as opposed to sakavādī ("own-doctrinist"). Both terms are indexical, i.e., their referent will change according to who is using it. And so in the Kathāvatthu and its commentary the sakavādīs are those holding to the Theravāda understanding, while the paravādīs are those holding to the understanding of the Sabbatthivāda, Andhaka, Kassapiya, etc. But in a Sabbatthivāda text the Theravādīs would be among those classed as paravādīs.

As for non-Buddhists, there's no end of terms for these: bāhirakas, titthiyas, aññatitthiyas, paṇḍaraṅgas, micchādiṭṭhikas, vitaṇḍavādīs, natthikas, diṭṭhigatikas, lokāyatikas, aceḷakas, nigaṇṭhas, jaṭilas, jaṭādharas, pāsaṇḍikas, hetukas, etc.
Thank you Bhante
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Heretic

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Bhikkhu Bodhi, in his translation of the Titthāyatanādi Suttaṃ refers to the Titthi as sectarians, and in his notes describes them as the holders of the 62 views expounded in the Brahmajāla Suttaṃ.

To me, a sect is a group that splits off from Buddhism. We could refer to the Mahāyāna or Pure Land schools as sects.

Those outside of the religion I refer to as heretics, or non-believers. Sectarian groups usually believe in the fundamental tenets of Buddhism such as the Four Noble Truths, take refuge in the Triple Gem, observe the five precepts, etc., but they hold unorthodox views regarding other matters.
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