The Pali word "sambhava" ???

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DooDoot
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The Pali word "sambhava" ???

Post by DooDoot »

Dear Pali gurus

The Pali "sambhava" is derived from saṃ + bhava.

My questions are:

1. How is "sambhava" best translated?

2. How are saṃ + bhava each to be translated?

3. What meanings & contexts make the word "sambhava" unique?

4. How is ""sambhava" distinguished from words such as "uppajjati"?

Thank you. :smile:
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Re: The Pali word "sambhava" ???

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AN 6.63 says:
Sujato wrote:It is intention that I call deeds.
Cetanāhaṁ, bhikkhave, kammaṁ vadāmi.

For after making a choice one acts
Cetayitvā kammaṁ karoti—

by way of body, speech, and mind.
kāyena vācāya manasā.

And what is the source of deeds?
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, kammānaṁ nidānasambhavo?

Contact is their source.
Phasso, bhikkhave, kammānaṁ nidānasambhavo.

https://suttacentral.net/an6.63/en/sujato
Thanissaro wrote:And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.
come into play
PHRASE
DEFINITIONS
1 to start to happen or have an effect
When the new policy comes into play, fewer people will have control.
Bodhi wrote:And what is the cause & origin of kamma? Contact is the cause & origin of kamma.
Note: AN 6.63 refers to the "new kamma" mentioned in SN 35.145. SN 35.145 does not use the above phrase about either its "old kamma" or "new kamma".

SN 12.25, which appears on a similar topic of kamma and says:
“Friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another. Now, friend Sāriputta, what does the Blessed One say about this? What does he teach? How should we answer if we are to state what has been said by the Blessed One and not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact? And how should we explain in accordance with the Dhamma so that no reasonable consequence of our assertion would give ground for criticism?”

“Friend, the Blessed One has said that pleasure [happiness] and pain [suffering] are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by the Blessed One and would not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.

“Therein, friend, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case that is conditioned by contact.

Therein, friends, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case it is impossible that they will experience anything without contact.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.25/en/bodhi
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Re: The Pali word "sambhava" ???

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MN 38 begins with Sati the Fisherman's Son discussing his view of consciousness, as follows:
“As I understand the Buddha’s teachings, it is this very same consciousness that roams and transmigrates, not another."

“tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi yathā tadevidaṁ viññāṇaṁ sandhāvati saṁsarati anaññan”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/mn38/en/sujato
The Buddha replies replies:
Sujato wrote:Anekapariyāyena hi vo, bhikkhave, paṭiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇaṁ vuttaṁ mayā, aññatra paccayā natthi viññāṇassa sambhavo”ti.

For in many ways I have told you that consciousness is dependently originated, since without a cause, consciousness does not come to be.
Bodhi wrote:the Blessed One has stated consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness.
Horner wrote:‘Apart from condition there is no origination of consciousness.’
Thanissaro wrote:'Apart from a requisite condition, there is no coming-into-play of consciousness.'
Kearney wrote:consciousness is dependently arisen, since without a condition consciousness does not come into being
The Buddha then explains the "arising" ("uppajjati") of consciousness:
Consciousness is reckoned according to the specific conditions dependent upon which it arises.
Yaṁ yadeva, bhikkhave, paccayaṁ paṭicca uppajjati viññāṇaṁ, tena teneva viññāṇantveva saṅkhyaṁ gacchati.

Consciousness that arises dependent on the eye and sights is reckoned as eye consciousness.
Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati viññāṇaṁ, cakkhuviññāṇantveva saṅkhyaṁ gacchati;

Consciousness that arises dependent on the ear and sounds is reckoned as ear consciousness.
sotañca paṭicca sadde ca uppajjati viññāṇaṁ, sotaviññāṇantveva saṅkhyaṁ gacchati;
The sutta continues:
Mendicants, do you see that this has come to be?”
Bhūtamidanti, bhikkhave, passathā”ti?

“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“Do you see that it originated with that as fuel [nutriment]?”
“Tadāhārasambhavanti, bhikkhave, passathā”ti?
“Mendicants, there are these four fuels [nutriments]. They maintain sentient beings that have been born [come to be] and help those that are about to be born.

“Cattārome, bhikkhave, āhārā bhūtānaṁ vā sattānaṁ ṭhitiyā, sambhavesīnaṁ vā anuggahāya.

What four?

Katame cattāro?

Solid food, whether coarse or fine; contact is the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth.

Kabaḷīkāro āhāro oḷāriko vā sukhumo vā, phasso dutiyo, manosañcetanā tatiyā, viññāṇaṁ catutthaṁ.

What is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of these four fuels?

Ime ca, bhikkhave, cattāro āhārā kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā?

Craving.

Ime cattāro āhārā taṇhānidānā taṇhāsamudayā taṇhājātikā taṇhāpabhavā.

And what is the source of craving?

Taṇhā cāyaṁ, bhikkhave, kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā?

Feeling.

Taṇhā vedanānidānā vedanāsamudayā vedanājātikā vedanāpabhavā.

And what is the source of feeling?

Vedanā cāyaṁ, bhikkhave, kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā?

Contact.

Vedanā phassanidānā phassasamudayā phassajātikā phassapabhavā.
The sutta ends:
Rebirth is a condition for old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress to come to be.

jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇaṁ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā sambhavanti.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DooDoot
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Re: The Pali word "sambhava" ???

Post by DooDoot »

AN 10.58 says:
Sujato wrote:sabbe dhammā manasikārasambhavā

all things ... attention produces them

https://suttacentral.net/an10.58/en/sujato
It has been well argued the word "dhamma" above means "dhamma practices", here.

As for the role of "attention", SN 46.35 says:
Mendicants, when you attend properly, the awakening factors of mindfulness, investigation of principles, energy, rapture, tranquility, immersion, and equanimity arise, and once they’ve arisen, they’re fully developed.”

“Yoniso ca kho, bhikkhave, manasikaroto anuppanno ceva satisambojjhaṅgo uppajjati, uppanno ca satisambojjhaṅgo bhāvanāpāripūriṁ gacchati …pe… anuppanno ceva upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo uppajjati, uppanno ca upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo bhāvanāpāripūriṁ gacchatī”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn46.35/en/sujato
Therefore, at least based on the above two suttas, it appears "sambhava" does not mean to simply "arise", such as when consciousness arises when sense organs operate. But, instead. "sambhava" appears to mean something is produced, developed or comes into being based on giving intentional attention to it and its conditions.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: The Pali word "sambhava" ???

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Therefore, to summarise the progress of the topic so far, the initial impressions are:

1. Kamma comes to be or is developed via craving, attachment, etc, but with contact as it primary condition. Therefore, "sambhava" of kamma does not mean contact experiencing kamma but, instead, kamma developing out of contact.

2. Factors of enlightenment come into existence or are developed with wise attention to them as their primary condition.

3. Possibly :shrug: in MN 38, the Buddha uses the word "sambhava" in relation to Sati's view because the Buddha is addressing how consciousness gets caught up in samsara. Therefore, the "sambhava" of consciousness may not merely be its "arising" ("uppajjati") dependent upon sense bases. But, instead, the "sambhava" of consciousness may possibly :shrug: refer to its role & place in the manifestation of suffering.

:reading:
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pulga
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Re: The Pali word "sambhava" ???

Post by pulga »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:45 am Possibly :shrug: in MN 38, the Buddha uses the word "sambhava" in relation to Sati's view because the Buddha is addressing how consciousness gets caught up in samsara. Therefore, the "sambhava" of consciousness may not merely be its "arising" ("uppajjati") dependent upon sense bases. But, instead, the "sambhava" of consciousness may possibly :shrug: refer to its role & place in the manifestation of suffering.
"Sambhava" might be interpreted as "positive being" (Ñanamoli), i.e. being as actual as opposed to possible (or negative), being as manifest.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
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