Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
BKh
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 am The books will be largely paperback and mostly not in mint condition, since I will be looking for the lowest prices. In addition, they won't be matching, but as long as they are all there...
The Sutta Nippata
So, I don't want to hamper your enthusiasm, but I'm not sure if your criterion (cheap and paperback) are the best way to build a sutta collection.

The Snp by Fausbol is not horrible, but it's over 100 years old. It's true, the world is a little thin on Sutta Nipata translations. Personally I recommend the one on the readingfaithfully.org link I gave above. It's a paperback by KR Norman. It also includes notes from a second translation where the second translation differed significantly.

As well, there are inexpensive paperbacks on that list for the Vv and Pv that might be a bit more readable than the one you've got.

And, yeah, I don't think that is a good Dhp translation. Again, there is a paperback on the link I gave for Ven. Buddharakkhita. Far better that what you've got.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space
User avatar
dharmatheway84
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:10 am
Location: Maitland, Florida

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

Thank you for the welcome and I am glad you mentioned that Dhammanando. My book is indeed the less favored version of the Dhammapada.

Well I am glad I asked so I know early in my journey that all books by the same title are not created equal. I come from a Christian background and, so, more or less, a Bible is a Bible is a Bible. I am glad to know that the same is not the case with the Buddhist scriptures.

So, as finances allow, my strategy going forward will be to do my homework and select each given book after consulting with the experts on here (and elsewhere). The provided link on Building a Sutta Reading Library should prove helpful; I bookmarked it. Also, I will probably go ahead and spring for the hardcover versions as a completed set will be a work of art unto itself.

Another option would be to save up and purchase a complete set. What does everyone think of the set offered by the following source?

http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tipitaka.htm

Ideally, I would like to eventually learn Pāli and order the truly complete set in the Pāli language. But, that would be a tall order. I do, however, feel learning the Pāli language would be an admirable long-term goal for a Buddhist.

I hope everybody is having a terrific day!

-Michael
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 12036
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by Ceisiwr »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 pm
Pali is essentially simplified Sanskrit, so if you learn Sanskrit you can not only read the Vedas and Upanishads (which gives you some context to the Buddha) but you will easily be able to understand Pali too. Two for one, as it were. This page is quite good for a beginner, as an introduction: https://www.learnsanskrit.org/

As you are new to Buddhism Pali isn’t essential, but the more you learn and grow in the Dhamma the more you will need to know it. For example, you will find that sometimes an English translation can be slightly misleading so understanding the Pali can help to better understand the Dhamma.
“When serenity is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And when the mind is developed, what purpose does it serve? Lust is abandoned.”

“When insight is developed, what purpose does it serve? Wisdom is developed. And when wisdom is developed, what purpose does it serve? Ignorance is abandoned."


AN 2.31
BKh
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 pm I come from a Christian background and, so, more or less, a Bible is a Bible is a Bible. I am glad to know that the same is not the case with the Buddhist scriptures.
Ahh. That tells us what kind of Christian you were! Some Christians feel that the King James Version is the only one that god approves of.

For the Cristian bible, there have been centuries for different translations to evolve, and many many centuries of people studying the root languages. English scholorship is much newer when it comes to the Pali suttas. Additionally there are a lot of really technical terms in the suttas that individuals have different opinions about. If you go with the transltions by Bhante Sujato, there is the advantage that he basically did them all at once, so when you know what English words are used for the Pali words, then you are able to kind of re-translate on the fly.
dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 pm Another option would be to save up and purchase a complete set. What does everyone think of the set offered by the following source?
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tipitaka.htm
I would never, ever recommend this to anyone. Unless you were putting it in a university library. Although the bindings look the same, they are from a variety of translators from various time periods. However if you do have your heart set on the pretty look on the shelf, and may eventually want to collect some of the less translated texts, members of the PTS are able to by special editions of the Wisdom Publications translations that are bound to look just like the other PTS books.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space
User avatar
dharmatheway84
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:10 am
Location: Maitland, Florida

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

This is the latest book I ordered. Hopefully it is one of the better versions of the Samyutta-nikaya of the Sutta-Pitaka Part l Sagatha Vagga.
Attachments
Screenshot_20210215-143229.png
User avatar
dharmatheway84
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:10 am
Location: Maitland, Florida

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

BKh wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:09 am
dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 pm I come from a Christian background and, so, more or less, a Bible is a Bible is a Bible. I am glad to know that the same is not the case with the Buddhist scriptures.
Ahh. That tells us what kind of Christian you were! Some Christians feel that the King James Version is the only one that god approves of.

For the Cristian bible, there have been centuries for different translations to evolve, and many many centuries of people studying the root languages. English scholorship is much newer when it comes to the Pali suttas. Additionally there are a lot of really technical terms in the suttas that individuals have different opinions about. If you go with the transltions by Bhante Sujato, there is the advantage that he basically did them all at once, so when you know what English words are used for the Pali words, then you are able to kind of re-translate on the fly.
dharmatheway84 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 pm Another option would be to save up and purchase a complete set. What does everyone think of the set offered by the following source?
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tipitaka.htm
I would never, ever recommend this to anyone. Unless you were putting it in a university library. Although the bindings look the same, they are from a variety of translators from various time periods. However if you do have your heart set on the pretty look on the shelf, and may eventually want to collect some of the less translated texts, members of the PTS are able to by special editions of the Wisdom Publications translations that are bound to look just like the other PTS books.
Thank you for the explanation on the matter of how the situations differ between the translations of Christianity and Buddhism.

I think I will try to gradually learn the Pāli language. Thank you for the link Ceisiwr. That should come in handy in starting to learn Sanskrit/Pāli.

As far as acquiring the full set of Pāli texts, I am more interested in the content rather than the books matching. As such, I will do some research before I acquire each volume. The volume in my last post will be the last one I purchase blindly.

-Michael
User avatar
dharmatheway84
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:10 am
Location: Maitland, Florida

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

I just ordered this version of the Iti-Vuttaka for $20. Though it is clearly one of the early traslations (1884), I hope it is one of the better ones.
Screenshot_20210215-222353.png
-Michael
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

That $1000 number probably includes lots of out of date publications. I suggest using this bibliography to collect modern and much more affordable books
Recent threads on this forum have shown the gamble one takes with modern translations.
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

BKh wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:32 am The Snp by Fausbol is not horrible, but it's over 100 years old. It's true, the world is a little thin on Sutta Nipata translations. Personally I recommend the one on the readingfaithfully.org link I gave above. It's a paperback by KR Norman. It also includes notes from a second translation where the second translation differed significantly.
Tharrisano Bhikku translated the whole sutta nipata -

https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Wri ... 200129.pdf
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

PDFs of DN & MN are avalible here-
https://bdkamerica.org/tripitaka-list/
They also sell very nice hardback books at a nice cost
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:59 pm As far as acquiring the full set of Pāli texts, I am more interested in the content rather than the books matching. As such, I will do some research before I acquire each volume.
Also, this site may help your research in finding out all the different translations out there for alot of the texts you are talking about-
https://mbingenheimer.net/tools/bibls/transbibl.html
BKh
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:27 am I just ordered this version of the Iti-Vuttaka for $20. Though it is clearly one of the early traslations (1884), I hope it is one of the better ones.
-Michael
Did you do any research on this book? I've never even heard of it. Really, You ought to be staying away from translations that are 136 years old. This would have been one of if not the first translation of the Itivuttaka in to English. I think it even pre-dates the publication of the PTS Pali English Dictionary. [EDIT: The PED was published in 1921, almost 40 years after this translation. Not that the PED is perfect, quite the contrary. There is so much more known today about Pali than in 1921. Who can even imagine 40 years before that!]

On the website I gave you there is even a free edition of the very good translation by John Ireland.

It is true that there will be problems with any translation. But that doesn't mean that all translations are equal. It is also true that a 120 year old translation would not run the risk of Freudian influence. That's because Freud didn't set up his private practce until 1886. That's two years after this translation was published. It also wouldn't have the influence of modern Advaita Vedanta, because most of those teachers weren't even born yet.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space
BKh
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:28 am PDFs of DN & MN are avalible here-
https://bdkamerica.org/tripitaka-list/
They also sell very nice hardback books at a nice cost
This is the Pali discussion forum and you keep posting links to non-Pali scriptures. Please be more transparent with what you are posting so people aren't misled. If there are actually Pali scriptures at the links you are sharing, I apologize. But I couldn't find them. If they do exist perhaps you could link to directly to them. Otherwise I think your posts are off topic.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am
48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:28 am PDFs of DN & MN are avalible here-
https://bdkamerica.org/tripitaka-list/
They also sell very nice hardback books at a nice cost
This is the Pali discussion forum and you keep posting links to non-Pali scriptures. Please be more transparent with what you are posting so people aren't misled. If there are actually Pali scriptures at the links you are sharing, I apologize. But I couldn't find them. If they do exist perhaps you could link to directly to them. Otherwise I think your posts are off topic.
parallels -

https://bdkamerica.org/product/the-cano ... ses-vol-i/
https://bdkamerica.org/product/the-cano ... es-vol-ii/
https://bdkamerica.org/product/the-cano ... s-vol-iii/
https://bdkamerica.org/product/the-madh ... -volume-i/
https://bdkamerica.org/product/the-madh ... volume-ii/
48vows
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 am Did you do any research on this book? I've never even heard of it. Really, You ought to be staying away from translations that are 136 years old. This would have been one of if not the first translation of the Itivuttaka in to English. I think it even pre-dates the publication of the PTS Pali English Dictionary. [EDIT: The PED was published in 1921, almost 40 years after this translation.
I would generally disagree with this and say that when it come to english transaltions, the older the translations are better.

As I mentioned before-
Recent threads on this forum have shown the gamble one takes with modern translations.
BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 amIt is also true that a 120 year old translation would not run the risk of Freudian influence.
This is exactly why I say the older translations are more trustworthy!
Post Reply