ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

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khantibalo
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ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

I finally finished this work
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/toc/translations/32878

My goal was to make it available for search, so now we can search for any word in Pali or in English and if it is present in the Visuddhimagga, it will be easy to find the translation. This is especially important since some of the words are not available in Pali-English dictionaries.
I have also aligned those passages from sub-commentary available in footnotes.
I had to edit the English translation in some places so it corresponds to Pali. I also tried to correctly align the verses, but that was not always possible.

I took English version from here
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf
and the alignment showed some sentences are not translated. I hope someone will investigate this and contact BPS so they fix that in a future edition.

There is one place when I filled the missing text from a previous edition of the text
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/p/371025
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by pulga »

Thank you for your effort. Sources for learning commentarial Pali are few and far between. Having the Pali and English side-by-side helps a lot in deciphering the Pali.

I'd like to note also that the Sammohavinodani shares a great many passages with the Visuddhimagga. Ven. Ñanamoli translated both. His draft translation of the Sammohavinodani was edited by Prof. L.S. Cousins and titled Dispeller of Delusion and published by the Pali Text Society. It was done prior to his translation of the Visuddhimagga during his early stages of learning Pali. It's interesting to compare his two translations of the same passages.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by frank k »

Very cool! Thanks for doing that.
khantibalo wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:14 am I finally finished this work
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/toc/translations/32878

My goal was to make it available for search, so now we can search for any word in Pali or in English and if it is present in the Visuddhimagga, it will be easy to find the translation. This is especially important since some of the words are not available in Pali-English dictionaries.
I have also aligned those passages from sub-commentary available in footnotes.
I had to edit the English translation in some places so it corresponds to Pali. I also tried to correctly align the verses, but that was not always possible.

I took English version from here
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf
and the alignment showed some sentences are not translated. I hope someone will investigate this and contact BPS so they fix that in a future edition.

There is one place when I filled the missing text from a previous edition of the text
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/p/371025
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by Ceisiwr »

Great work. Appreciate all of the effort it must have taken you :thumbsup:
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understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by mikenz66 »

Well done, khantibalo!

:heart:
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by Ontheway »

Just visited the website, it was amazing. Thank you for sharing.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

I could also align the Khuddakapatha commentary translated by the same author. It has some very important word definitions.
For example, this definition of sikkhāpada shows that it is not a precept or a rule at all:
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/node/table/21777

To do that I need a good quality English text of the book in plain text form.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by frank k »

If you're looking for other nanamoli translations to do, line up with the pali, how about
KN Pe Petakopadesa, or KN Niddesa I and II, or KN Ps patisambhidimagga?

khantibalo wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:34 pm I could also align the Khuddakapatha commentary translated by the same author. It has some very important word definitions.
For example, this definition of sikkhāpada shows that it is not a precept or a rule at all:
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/node/table/21777

To do that I need a good quality English text of the book in plain text form.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

frank k wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:48 pm If you're looking for other nanamoli translations to do, line up with the pali, how about
KN Pe Petakopadesa, or KN Niddesa I and II, or KN Ps patisambhidimagga?
This work requires a plain text version of the book. For example, I have patisambhidimagga scan in a pdf file, but I cannot extract text from it because the image quality is very poor and trying to OCR it produces a lot of errors.
If there are those who are interested in aligning more books, please provide a plain text version I can import.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by frank k »

khantibalo wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:46 pm ...
Check your private messages, I sent you a note.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

khantibalo wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:34 pm I could also align the Khuddakapatha commentary translated by the same author. It has some very important word definitions.
To do that I need a good quality English text of the book in plain text form.
I found it here
https://archive.org/details/PaliCommentariesCollection
there is even a plain text version. The OCR quality is not ideal, but good enough to use.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Khantibalo,
khantibalo wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:14 am I finally finished this work
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/toc/translations/32878
...
In his first talk about the Visuddhimagga, here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41223
Bhikkhu Sujato mentioned that, having translations of the first four nikayas, the vinaya, and the early parts of the KN entered as parallel Pali-English they were planning some collaborative work on the Commentaries. Since the Visuddhimagga central to the Commentaries, they may be very interested in making use of your work.

If your files are reasonably rational, it would presumably be possible to easily reformat them for their Bilara engine:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ge ... lara/13643

Furthermore, you might be interested in TML (i.e. Transformer Machine Learning model), see here:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/tm ... lish/21079

The machine translation for the Visuddhimagga can be seen here:
https://buddhanexus.net/pli/english/anya-e0101n0
I think this link will turn on the English, but in some cases you may have to click on the "English" option to see a translation.

As Ven Vimala says: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/tm ... lish/21079
One major problem we ran into is that Pāli has developed over a rather long period of time. The EBTs use an older form of the language than later texts and also the texts we have in prose are rather different than those of other genres like the Abhidhamma. Therefore translations for these texts cannot be relied upon as actual correct translations. We hope that when more Bilara translations become available for the Abhidhamma and Commentaries we can train the TML to learn more and give better results in the long run.
Your efforts would, therefore, be extremely useful to that project, since the Visuddhimagga, as you say, contains may examples of late Pali usage.

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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

I have finished the alignment work for most part of Khuddakapatha commentary by ven. Nyanamoli.

https://tipitaka.theravada.su/toc/translations/21762

There are some notes about this work:
1. Unlike Visuddhimagga translation, I did not add the footnotes available in ven. Nyanamoli's book. However, if anyone wants to help with this, just register on the site and add these footnotes as comments to the appropriate sentences.
2. Commentary to Khp 8 Nidhikaṇḍasutta is not yet aligned.
3. Mangala sutta and Metta sutta commentaries are aligned only in part specific to Khuddakapatha commentary. Everything else has been aligned in suttanipata commentary here
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/node/table/22437
and here
https://tipitaka.theravada.su/node/table/22448

I see subtle differences in Khuddakapatha commentary and Suttanipata commentary to these books, however, commentary to the text itself seems to be identical.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by khantibalo »

Here is an update on our pali texts alignment works.

In addition to entire Visuddhimagga we now have fully aligned DN, MN, Vinayapitaka Mahavagga, Petakopadesa, Khuddakapatha commentary.

Some texts were aligned partially: Patisambhidamagga, Cariyapitaka commentary, Milindapanha, some other commentaries and subcommentaries.

There were requests from several software developers for a permission to use this work in their projects. For them I have shared the database in the github repository
https://github.com/khantibalo/tipitaka
together with the source code.
(see database.sql.zip)
Those who are familiar with mysql can run their own queries and extract text if needed.
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Re: ven. Nyanamoli translation of Visuddhimagga is now aligned with pali sources

Post by frank k »

Sādhu!
khantibalo wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:05 pm Here is an update on our pali texts alignment works.

In addition to entire Visuddhimagga we now have fully aligned DN, MN, Vinayapitaka Mahavagga, Petakopadesa, Khuddakapatha commentary.

Some texts were aligned partially: Patisambhidamagga, Cariyapitaka commentary, Milindapanha, some other commentaries and subcommentaries.

There were requests from several software developers for a permission to use this work in their projects. For them I have shared the database in the github repository
https://github.com/khantibalo/tipitaka
together with the source code.
(see database.sql.zip)
Those who are familiar with mysql can run their own queries and extract text if needed.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
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