Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:51 pm
Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 pm
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:36 am

What's the ded sound?

From my teacher, for double consonants, even for aspirated, either there's a pause, or just stay longer at the sound, if it can be pulled longer. Eg. for tt, dd, kk, one cannot pull the sound longer, but for mm, nn, ss it's possible to pull it longer.

There's no mention of any sound in between. Any citation for that? Is this from your personal observation listening to chantings somewhere (where?).


Skip to this time:
3:17 ---> hear she spell: "Bu-d[n]dhe"

And u will hear "suvatthi" like "suvat[n]thi".

U will hear, she punch "Dh" for idampi Dhamme ...
Idampi Bu-ddhe ---> punch "dh".




4:34 ----> she spell ... ānantarikaňňa ...
She dunt spell ñ like spanish "ñ".


That "ballad" by Priya Barua.
Dunt make Suttå into song, but we
Can make BALLAD (kidung) from gāthā (Suttå).
Yes, we understand that there are different styles of pronunciation in chanting. I have a book of chanting (published by the Samatha Trust) which goes into quite a lot of detail about them - Thai, Sri Lankan, Burmese, etc. - and how they might be rendered in romanised script. It's a lot clearer than your example, because their English is better and therefore less of a distraction.

But the question is: why do you want to encourage people to favour this particular one? Do you think it is somehow more authentic, closer to what the Buddha heard? More helpful for understanding the meaning? Or do you just think it sounds better?

How you guys spell this:
1. Kicchå
2. Vijjā

Kic-cha? Kit-co??
Vij-jā? Vit-jā??

Same with lagging, it is la-gging not lag-ging.
It is: vi-j[ň]jā
And ki-c[ň]cho --> punch CH. If no punch,
The sound like "ki-cco" (hear "h"??)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Ontheway »

Different country different style. Shouldn't judge how people pronounce it...

Thai monks will chant like this:


Sri Lankan monks chant like this:


Western monks chant like this:


Burmese monks chant like this:
(6:48 start)

Indonesian monks chant like this:


India (not monk), but they put in music and chant like this:


As long as they get the meaning and text structure correct, the chanting style won't make any difference.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

This is not bout different style.


How you guys spell this:
1. Kicchå
2. Vijjā

Kic-cha? Kit-co??
Vij-jā? Vit-jā??

Same with lagging, it is la-gging not lag-ging.
It is: vi-j[ň]jā
And ki-c[ň]cho --> punch CH. If no punch,
The sound like "ki-cco" (hear "h"??)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 8150
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Coëmgenu »

Here's the deal. If I could upload audio to this site, I would upload a recording of ñ being pronounced as "ll" in Spanish so that you could hear that it is very obviously wrong. The same with your division of syllables in this most recent post. I think the issue is you are mispronouncing the Spanish ll as something closer to an N because the place of articulation is so close. Irish has an "L-coloured" N for instance. Either way, you are very sure you are right, and I don't see the point in arguing with you about it.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:03 pm This is not bout different style.


How you guys spell this:
1. Kicchå
2. Vijjā

Kic-cha? Kit-co??
Vij-jā? Vit-jā??

Same with lagging, it is la-gging not lag-ging.
It is: vi-j[ň]jā
And ki-c[ň]cho --> punch CH. If no punch,
The sound like "ki-cco" (hear "h"??)
This is exactly the answer you gave to me, when I asked you why you favoured one particular type of pronunciation over another. But it doesn't seem to be a reason at all; just another assertion. As Coemgenu notes, you seem very sure that you are right, so it's probably futile arguing with you. But your posts are now a distinctly odd mix of the obdurate and the whimsical, expressed in very poor English.

You'll probably always find someone here who is up for an argument. But is it really worth it, when people can't really even understand what your point is?
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:14 pm Here's the deal. If I could upload audio to this site, I would upload a recording of ñ being pronounced as "ll" in Spanish so that you could hear that it is very obviously wrong. The same with your division of syllables in this most recent post. I think the issue is you are mispronouncing the Spanish ll as something closer to an N because the place of articulation is so close. Irish has an "L-coloured" N for instance. Either way, you are very sure you are right, and I don't see the point in arguing with you about it.
I just wanted to say it doesn't look like "ñ".
It's hard to explain more like which one.

Just watch that video, u will know it
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Sam Vara wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 pm
Gwi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:03 pm This is not bout different style.


How you guys spell this:
1. Kicchå
2. Vijjā

Kic-cha? Kit-co??
Vij-jā? Vit-jā??

Same with lagging, it is la-gging not lag-ging.
It is: vi-j[ň]jā
And ki-c[ň]cho --> punch CH. If no punch,
The sound like "ki-cco" (hear "h"??)
This is exactly the answer you gave to me, when I asked you why you favoured one particular type of pronunciation over another. But it doesn't seem to be a reason at all; just another assertion. As Coemgenu notes, you seem very sure that you are right, so it's probably futile arguing with you. But your posts are now a distinctly odd mix of the obdurate and the whimsical, expressed in very poor English.

You'll probably always find someone here who is up for an argument. But is it really worth it, when people can't really even understand what your point is?

Look how u guys spell "vijjā" ....

Even the Brahmā Sahampati cannot deny me.

(Read: bram-hā not brah-mā)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:17 am
Sam Vara wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 pm
Gwi wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:03 pm This is not bout different style.


How you guys spell this:
1. Kicchå
2. Vijjā

Kic-cha? Kit-co??
Vij-jā? Vit-jā??

Same with lagging, it is la-gging not lag-ging.
It is: vi-j[ň]jā
And ki-c[ň]cho --> punch CH. If no punch,
The sound like "ki-cco" (hear "h"??)
This is exactly the answer you gave to me, when I asked you why you favoured one particular type of pronunciation over another. But it doesn't seem to be a reason at all; just another assertion. As Coemgenu notes, you seem very sure that you are right, so it's probably futile arguing with you. But your posts are now a distinctly odd mix of the obdurate and the whimsical, expressed in very poor English.

You'll probably always find someone here who is up for an argument. But is it really worth it, when people can't really even understand what your point is?

Look how u guys spell "vijjā" ....

Even the Brahmā Sahampati cannot deny me.

(Read: bram-hā not brah-mā)
When one holds the view: only this is right, everything else is wrong, they get into quarrels with those who holds the view that everything is right or nothing is right. Reflecting on this, the wise disciple abandon clinging to views.

Anyway, just some forum tips, since you're relatively new here, maybe you're also new to internet forums in general. There's a plurality of cultures in the world, as pronunciation is the least of the concern in terms of liberation. Maybe it's important for ordination, but then the people who would want to learn the proper Pali pronunciation would learn it from their monk teacher, not you. As a novice monk, I can say that indeed, your pronunciation guide doesn't help for potential monks. That's one less audience you have to teach (as you aim to become a Dhamma teacher).

If you just label your style of pronunciation as Gwi style (or whatever community you got it from), maybe some people might be interested to learn that particular style. Depends on whether we can understand it in practise. In practise, I think even Thai pronunciation vs Myanmar pronunciation are mutually not able to understand each other. Given the plurality of existing pronunciations in the world right now, one has to ask, is it helpful, useful, fit for one's own time and effort to insist on one's own, which is different from what others have? Maybe it is, maybe not.

One of the qualities people admire of a Dhamma teacher is the ability to give and take, to not insist on matters which doesn't merit debate, quarrel about, know which battles to pick, or not even get into verbal fights. It's good to try and cultivate some of those. May your path be smooth. :namaste:
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:05 am
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:17 am
Sam Vara wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 pm

This is exactly the answer you gave to me, when I asked you why you favoured one particular type of pronunciation over another. But it doesn't seem to be a reason at all; just another assertion. As Coemgenu notes, you seem very sure that you are right, so it's probably futile arguing with you. But your posts are now a distinctly odd mix of the obdurate and the whimsical, expressed in very poor English.

You'll probably always find someone here who is up for an argument. But is it really worth it, when people can't really even understand what your point is?

Look how u guys spell "vijjā" ....

Even the Brahmā Sahampati cannot deny me.

(Read: bram-hā not brah-mā)
When one holds the view: only this is right, everything else is wrong, they get into quarrels with those who holds the view that everything is right or nothing is right. Reflecting on this, the wise disciple abandon clinging to views.

Anyway, just some forum tips, since you're relatively new here, maybe you're also new to internet forums in general. There's a plurality of cultures in the world, as pronunciation is the least of the concern in terms of liberation. Maybe it's important for ordination, but then the people who would want to learn the proper Pali pronunciation would learn it from their monk teacher, not you. As a novice monk, I can say that indeed, your pronunciation guide doesn't help for potential monks. That's one less audience you have to teach (as you aim to become a Dhamma teacher).

If you just label your style of pronunciation as Gwi style (or whatever community you got it from), maybe some people might be interested to learn that particular style. Depends on whether we can understand it in practise. In practise, I think even Thai pronunciation vs Myanmar pronunciation are mutually not able to understand each other. Given the plurality of existing pronunciations in the world right now, one has to ask, is it helpful, useful, fit for one's own time and effort to insist on one's own, which is different from what others have? Maybe it is, maybe not.

One of the qualities people admire of a Dhamma teacher is the ability to give and take, to not insist on matters which doesn't merit debate, quarrel about, know which battles to pick, or not even get into verbal fights. It's good to try and cultivate some of those. May your path be smooth. :namaste:


I holding that word, to not spoken to you r
(attached to personal views, already know wrong)




That is Sri Lanka not Thailand,
Same.

- ta-s[nk]sa
- Sammāsambu-d[n]dha-s[nk]sa
- sa-b[m]be
- pari-t[n]tā
- nk (u will hear like "hnnnn"), etc.


07:04 ---> bhik-k[ng]khu
08:42 ---> vi-j[ň]jā
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:15 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:05 am
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:17 am


Look how u guys spell "vijjā" ....

Even the Brahmā Sahampati cannot deny me.

(Read: bram-hā not brah-mā)
When one holds the view: only this is right, everything else is wrong, they get into quarrels with those who holds the view that everything is right or nothing is right. Reflecting on this, the wise disciple abandon clinging to views.

Anyway, just some forum tips, since you're relatively new here, maybe you're also new to internet forums in general. There's a plurality of cultures in the world, as pronunciation is the least of the concern in terms of liberation. Maybe it's important for ordination, but then the people who would want to learn the proper Pali pronunciation would learn it from their monk teacher, not you. As a novice monk, I can say that indeed, your pronunciation guide doesn't help for potential monks. That's one less audience you have to teach (as you aim to become a Dhamma teacher).

If you just label your style of pronunciation as Gwi style (or whatever community you got it from), maybe some people might be interested to learn that particular style. Depends on whether we can understand it in practise. In practise, I think even Thai pronunciation vs Myanmar pronunciation are mutually not able to understand each other. Given the plurality of existing pronunciations in the world right now, one has to ask, is it helpful, useful, fit for one's own time and effort to insist on one's own, which is different from what others have? Maybe it is, maybe not.

One of the qualities people admire of a Dhamma teacher is the ability to give and take, to not insist on matters which doesn't merit debate, quarrel about, know which battles to pick, or not even get into verbal fights. It's good to try and cultivate some of those. May your path be smooth. :namaste:


I holding that word, to not spoken to you r
(attached to personal views, already know wrong)




That is Sri Lanka not Thailand,
Same.

- ta-s[nk]sa
- Sammāsambu-d[n]dha-s[nk]sa
- sa-b[m]be
- pari-t[n]tā
- nk (u will hear like "hnnnn"), etc.


07:04 ---> bhik-k[ng]khu
08:42 ---> vi-j[ň]jā
For Sri Lankan's chanting style of adding "n", that's maybe just due to the interference of their native tongue, Sinhalese.

Just like how Thais pronounce "Buddho" as "Phuttho ".

Or how Burmese monks pronounce "Paccaya" as "Passeyo".

Even the great Pali scholar Bhikkhu Bodhi pronounced "Namo" as "Namou" (sometimes).

No one can be really sure 100% on how Pali words can be pronounced. People somehow just read them at their own convenience. As long as they don't mispresenting the intended meaning, that's fine.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by mikenz66 »

Good summary, Ontheway.
Ontheway wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:01 pm For Sri Lankan's chanting style of adding "n", that's maybe just due to the interference of their native tongue, Sinhalese.

Just like how Thais pronounce "Buddho" as "Phuttho ".

Or how Burmese monks pronounce "Paccaya" as "Passeyo".

Even the great Pali scholar Bhikkhu Bodhi pronounced "Namo" as "Namou" (sometimes).

No one can be really sure 100% on how Pali words can be pronounced. People somehow just read them at their own convenience. As long as they don't mispresenting the intended meaning, that's fine.
I think it's very important to realise that:
1. One's native language influences how one speaks certain sounds, or even whether one can speak them.
2. One's native language influences how one hears sounds.

For 1: For example, my wife is Thai, and there are some sounds that she has never figured out how to produce. For example, the name "Max" comes out as "Mac". Or if she tries really hard, it becomes two syllables: "Mac-ess". English speakers have trouble distinguishing, and/or sounding aspirated and unaspirated "t" and "d" sounds (commonly transliterated as th, t, dh, d), and also appreciating that Pali (and Māori) have short and long vowels. And, for further amusement, try to reproduce the Dutch pronunciation of Van Gogh (recording here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh).

For 2: Here in NZ we tend to de-emphasise, or even skip, the "r" at the end of a word like "car", which often sounds more like "caa". So when we come across someone who actually pronounces the "r", it sounds to us as if they are over-emphasising it.

In summary, one's native language will influence how one can speak, and how one hears others speaking. Unless one has a high level of linguistic knowledge, one should not take one's opinions about pronunciation too seriously!

:heart:
Mike
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

mikenz66 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:07 pm Good summary, Ontheway.
Ontheway wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:01 pm For Sri Lankan's chanting style of adding "n", that's maybe just due to the interference of their native tongue, Sinhalese.

Just like how Thais pronounce "Buddho" as "Phuttho ".

Or how Burmese monks pronounce "Paccaya" as "Passeyo".

Even the great Pali scholar Bhikkhu Bodhi pronounced "Namo" as "Namou" (sometimes).

No one can be really sure 100% on how Pali words can be pronounced. People somehow just read them at their own convenience. As long as they don't mispresenting the intended meaning, that's fine.
I think it's very important to realise that:
1. One's native language influences how one speaks certain sounds, or even whether one can speak them.
2. One's native language influences how one hears sounds.

For 1: For example, my wife is Thai, and there are some sounds that she has never figured out how to produce. For example, the name "Max" comes out as "Mac". Or if she tries really hard, it becomes two syllables: "Mac-ess". English speakers have trouble distinguishing, and/or sounding aspirated and unaspirated "t" and "d" sounds (commonly transliterated as th, t, dh, d), and also appreciating that Pali (and Māori) have short and long vowels. And, for further amusement, try to reproduce the Dutch pronunciation of Van Gogh (recording here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh).

For 2: Here in NZ we tend to de-emphasise, or even skip, the "r" at the end of a word like "car", which often sounds more like "caa". So when we come across someone who actually pronounces the "r", it sounds to us as if they are over-emphasising it.

In summary, one's native language will influence how one can speak, and how one hears others speaking. Unless one has a high level of linguistic knowledge, one should not take one's opinions about pronunciation too seriously!

:heart:
Mike

So, can i pronounce:
lag--ging?
So--und?
Actual--ly?
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Gwi,
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:14 am So, can i pronounce:
lag--ging?
So--und?
Actual--ly?
Generally not, if you are trying to pronounce those like a native English speaker. Note that in European languages the syllables run together in ways that they do not in most Asian languages.

As others have said, it is unclear what this thread is about. Your posts seem to have little to do with how Pali is pronounced by people in places like Thailand and Sri Lanka, or with scholarly work on the most probably original pronunciation. Perhaps this is a thread about how Indonesians usually chant in Pali?

Since Pali pronunciation does vary between, and also within, SE Asian countries, I would hesitate to call any pronunciation "wrong". However, chanting with a group is simply not possible unless there is agreement on pronunciation and rhythm. Most of my experience is at Thai monasteries, but if I attend a meeting at a Sri Lankan monastery I adapt their style.

:heart:
Mike
User avatar
Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

mikenz66 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:38 am Hi Gwi,
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:14 am So, can i pronounce:
lag--ging?
So--und?
Actual--ly?
Generally not, if you are trying to pronounce those like a native English speaker. Note that in European languages the syllables run together in ways that they do not in most Asian languages.

As others have said, it is unclear what this thread is about. Your posts seem to have little to do with how Pali is pronounced by people in places like Thailand and Sri Lanka, or with scholarly work on the most probably original pronunciation. Perhaps this is a thread about how Indonesians usually chant in Pali?

Since Pali pronunciation does vary between, and also within, SE Asian countries, I would hesitate to call any pronunciation "wrong". However, chanting with a group is simply not possible unless there is agreement on pronunciation and rhythm. Most of my experience is at Thai monasteries, but if I attend a meeting at a Sri Lankan monastery I adapt their style.

:heart:
Mike
It is same, we cant pronounce like this:
Vij--jā
Āyasmā Mahāmog--gal--lāno
Bhik--khu


Why? Coz, double consonant is HALF.
We need to pronounce like this:

Vi--j[ň]jā
(Vi+ jjā)

Āyasmā Mahāmo--g[ng]ga--llāno
(Ā/AA + ya + s + mā Ma + hā + Mo + gga + llā + no)

Bhi--k[ng]khu
(Bhi + kkhu)



* Sak[a]yamuni = Sa + k + ya + mu + ni
* Tasmā = ta + s + mā
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:51 am
mikenz66 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:38 am Hi Gwi,
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:14 am So, can i pronounce:
lag--ging?
So--und?
Actual--ly?
Generally not, if you are trying to pronounce those like a native English speaker. Note that in European languages the syllables run together in ways that they do not in most Asian languages.

As others have said, it is unclear what this thread is about. Your posts seem to have little to do with how Pali is pronounced by people in places like Thailand and Sri Lanka, or with scholarly work on the most probably original pronunciation. Perhaps this is a thread about how Indonesians usually chant in Pali?

Since Pali pronunciation does vary between, and also within, SE Asian countries, I would hesitate to call any pronunciation "wrong". However, chanting with a group is simply not possible unless there is agreement on pronunciation and rhythm. Most of my experience is at Thai monasteries, but if I attend a meeting at a Sri Lankan monastery I adapt their style.

:heart:
Mike
It is same, we cant pronounce like this:
Vij--jā
Āyasmā Mahāmog--gal--lāno
Bhik--khu


Why? Coz, double consonant is HALF.
We need to pronounce like this:

Vi--j[ň]jā
(Vi+ jjā)

Āyasmā Mahāmo--g[ng]ga--llāno
(Ā/AA + ya + s + mā Ma + hā + Mo + gga + llā + no)

Bhi--k[ng]khu
(Bhi + kkhu)



* Sak[a]yamuni = Sa + k + ya + mu + ni
* Tasmā = ta + s + mā


All the best then in your next monastery stay or retreats which has chantings. If the group happens to agree with your pronunciation, then great, if not, then you'll see the disharmony in sound. And it would be interesting to see you trying to teach the monks there how to chant properly. Mike provides a great practical advice. When in Rome, do as the Romans.
Post Reply