Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

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Gwi
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Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

:anjali:
(PART I)

1. Ā/ā: different with "A/a", like DO (1) and DO (8) scales.

2. Double consonants are read 1/2 beat (like a sharp note), not 2 beats, like the word “Buddhå” (read: Bu-ddho, not Bud-dho). Similarly, lagging is read as: la-gging, not lag-ging.

3. Except, these three consonants: the group "n, ṇ, and m" are read separately, even though they are double consonants.
Example:
A. “Dhammå” (Dham-mo),
B. Sampannå (sam-pan-no),
C. Vaṇṇå (vaṇ-ṇo).

4. "A" can change into "o", usually at the end of a word or masculine (never at the beginning of a word). Therefore, I use this: "Å/å".
Example:
A. Dhammå (writing method) = Dhammo (reading method)

B. Theravādå (writing method) = Theravādo (reading method)

C. Vinayå (writing method) = Vinayo (reading method).

In some cases, it will remain "a", as when "Vinayå" is combined with other words, as "Piṭakå" becoming "Vinaya Piṭakå (Vinaya-piṭakå, not Vinayo).

5. V = similar to "w".





(Part II)

6. Ñ/ñ is not the same as the Spanish “ñ”. It similar to “ll (double L)” in Spanish. Paññā is read: pa-ññā, not pañ-ñā (to be sharp, not double). "Ñ" reads "half n", sounds like a "y". Therefore, I use "Ň/ň" (like a "v" shape, not a wave).

7. When "s" (behind) meets "m" (before/after) then "s" is pronounced with a consonant "u".
Example:
A. Tasmā then reads, ta-s[u]-ma, not tas-mā aka 3 syllables, not two. This is only for "s" that meet "m".

B. Āyasmā (read: Ā-ya-s[u]-mā)

6. Distinguish between “ṅ (ng)” and “ṃ (nk)”. Like the difference between ping and pink; things and think. One is coarser (ng); the other is smoother (nk) where “ṃ (nk)” sounds like “hmn”; “ṅ(ng)” no.

7. These four groups must also be read with (a little) more pressure, namely groups (1) dh, (2) th, (3) ch, and (4) jh. Either double consonants or not. Not for underscores, as ṭh, ḍh, etc. (there is a dot under the word).
Example:
- Buddhå, sādhu, Theravādå, akkocchi, and jhānå. Meanwhile, for others there is no pressure, as gha, kha, lha, etc.

8. For the dotted one, how to read it by placing the tongue on the roof of the mouth or just look at the chorus, like lalala, with the tongue on the roof of the mouth. Or by inserting the letter "r".
Example:
A. Puṇṇamā (full moon) can be read (this is how to read, not write): puṇ(r)ṇa-mā. The letter "r", the way to insert is tucked together with the bottom dot, but it sounds as if it doesn't exist (sound off) because this is just a tip.

B. Pāḷi (read: Pā-[r]ḷi), etc. (Maybe a little difficult for beginners).






(PART III)

9. The way to read these 4 double consonants is also slightly different, namely (1) “dd” and “tt” are inserted together with “n”, (2) “bb” and “pp” are inserted together with “m”; (3) “cc” and “jj” insert “ň (ny)” together, and (4) “kk” and “gg” insert “ṅ (ng)” together.
Example:
A. Buddhå, read "Bu-d(n)dhå" (don't read "Bun-ddhå" because the insertion sounds like a dead sound, the same for all cases. Don't forget also that "dh, th, ch, jha" is read with more pressure. Do not exaggerate).

B. Āyasmā Dabbå Mallaputtå mahātherå (read: Da-b[m]bo Ma-lla-pu-t[n]to)

C. Āyasmā Mahākappinå mahātherå (read: Ma-hā-ka-p[m]pi-no)

D. Āyasmā Piḷinda-vacchå mahātherå (read: Pi-ḷin-da-wa-c[ň]cho)

E. Vijjā (read: wi-j[ň]jā)

F. Bhikkhu (read: bhi-k[ng]khu)

G. Āyasmā Mahāmoggallānattherå (read: Ma-hā-mo-g[ng]ga-llā-na-t[n]the-rå)

10. For "gg", when a "g" of "gg" is in the middle of the word it becomes "ng" + "ng". But, use a small voice (smooth).
Example:
A. Maggå is read as mang-ngo (not ma-ngo or mang-go)

B. Vaggå (vang-ngo)

11. If these eight letters meet (fit) behind the letter "h", it will be (read) a double, even though it is not a double, including: (1) ň, (2) ṇ , (3) n, (4) m, (5) l, (6) ḷ, (7) y, (8) v.
Example:
A. Paňhå (paň-ňhå, not paň-hå) ---> "ňň" is sharp, but here it becomes separate.

B. Taṇhā (read: taṇ-ṇhā)

C. Nhāru (read: n'nhā-ru)

D. Tumhå (read: tum-mho)

E. “l/L” rarely appears, not to be confused with the underscore “ḷ”

F. Āsāḷhā (read: Ā-sāḷ-ḷhā, not Ā-sāḷ-hā)

G. Sayhå (read: say-yho) ---> double consonants, other than “n, ṇ, and m” are sharp (half beat), but here they are separated

H. Jivhā (read: jiv-vhā)


Just remember that there are 3 groups of "n" except "ng" then "m", not "ṃ (nk)" plus "l and ḷ" to 6 then add 2, namely "y and v". In total there are 8.




Sources:
1. Parittā book (Sangghå Theravādå Indonesia)
2. The Great Chronicle of Buddhas









1. Buddhå (read: Bu-d[n]dho)
2. Dhammå (read: Dham-mo)
3. Theravādå (read: The-ra-wā-do)
4. Sāriputtattherå (read: Sā-ri-pu-t[n]ta-t[n]the-ro)
5. Mahāmoggallāna (read: Ma-hā-mo-gga-llā-no)
6. Maṅgalam‘uttamaṃ (read: mang-ga-lam [continue to read] u-tta-ma-nk)
7. Āsāḷhā (read: Ā-sāḷ-ḷhā)
8. Nibbānå (read: ni-b[m]bā-no)


* It is "manggalam", not "manggala-mu".
* remember the pressure (push). It is "dh, th, ch, jha".
:namaste:
Last edited by Gwi on Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
sphairos
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by sphairos »

This is not correct. Real rules for pronunciation one may find in S. Collins "Pāli grammar for students" as well as in A.K. Warder's "Introduction to Pāli".

Or here:

https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... f-Pali.htm

GWI writes: "6. Ñ/ñ is not the same as the Spanish “ñ”."

Bhante Ānandajoti writes:
"The pronunciation of ña is as in canyon, or the Spanish word señor."
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Look number 4 in the pict,
And when u say "ň",
ur mouth still open
(Dont use lick).

Near "y" or "double ll (in spanish)".
But, not really same.

Aňňā (read: a-ňňā)
Paňhå (read: paň-ňho)
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Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by sphairos »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:46 pm Look number 4 in the pict,
I know how to pronounce it, that is correct, as "ñ" is a palatal sound
Near "y" or "double ll (in spanish)".
no.

The whole your "Pāḷi Pronunciation" guide is wrong.
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How true are your ways?
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by ssasny »

What does the small circle over a vowel indicate, I haven't seen this notation before?

This post by Ven. Dhammanando shows the wide variety between regional Pali pronunciation.
There isn't one 'right way'.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32538&p=483285&hilit=nasal#p483285

Stephen
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

ssasny wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:31 pm What does the small circle over a vowel indicate, I haven't seen this notation before?

This post by Ven. Dhammanando shows the wide variety between regional Pali pronunciation.
There isn't one 'right way'.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32538&p=483285&hilit=nasal#p483285

Stephen
Thats my creation.
Im the creator.

Therå (how to write) = thero (how to read)
Vinayå = Vinayo

"å" means "a" become "o".
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

sphairos wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:11 pm
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:46 pm Look number 4 in the pict,
I know how to pronounce it, that is correct, as "ñ" is a palatal sound
Near "y" or "double ll (in spanish)".
no.

The whole your "Pāḷi Pronunciation" guide is wrong.

U dunt know double L in spanish
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:25 am
ssasny wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:31 pm What does the small circle over a vowel indicate, I haven't seen this notation before?

This post by Ven. Dhammanando shows the wide variety between regional Pali pronunciation.
There isn't one 'right way'.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32538&p=483285&hilit=nasal#p483285

Stephen
Thats my creation.
Im the creator.

Therå (how to write) = thero (how to read)
Vinayå = Vinayo

"å" means "a" become "o".
Might be a good idea not to simply create your own standards, especially when you want to communicate with the world which has existing standards. It can cause unnecessary confusion. It's well known for those who study Pali grammar that the ending changes depending on the usage of the word. There's a lot more possibility of change than from a to o.

Do you have a teacher/ monk you're learning from? Or are you mostly self studying?
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Ṭhānuttamo »

I have dealt with the topic in detail here (pp. 14-26), if you like: https://www.academia.edu/51439550/M%C4% ... i_Buddhism

Some explanations of nigghīta (ṃ) found in there are somewhat novel, but the general scholarly trend goes definitely in this direction. It is clear that it is neither "m" nor "ṅ", the ancient grammarians are very clear on that ...

Mettā 2u!
Ṭhānuttamo

P.s. Inventing your own Pāḷi alphabet is like reinventing the wheel of course. :)
ssasny
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by ssasny »

Thank you Venerable, for your recent publications and your comments here.

One thing that has helped me understand the niggahīta is that it's less an independent sound and more of an effect placed upon a vowel. (a, i, u)
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

A. Bhikkhu wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:15 pm I have dealt with the topic in detail here (pp. 14-26), if you like: https://www.academia.edu/51439550/M%C4% ... i_Buddhism

Some explanations of nigghīta (ṃ) found in there are somewhat novel, but the general scholarly trend goes definitely in this direction. It is clear that it is neither "m" nor "ṅ", the ancient grammarians are very clear on that ...

Mettā 2u!
Ṭhānuttamo

P.s. Inventing your own Pāḷi alphabet is like reinventing the wheel of course. :)
ṃ/ṁ = nk
ṅ = ng

Saṅghå = Sang-ghå
Suttaṁ = su-t[n]tank


Myanmar using "Saṁghå", it is Myanmar alphabet,
Not Pāḷi. Pāḷi is "Saṅghå".


Perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.

We cant write "Theravādo", it is same
We cant write "hani", but "honey".

And we saying: "ha-ni, not ho-ney"
Honey (how to write) = hani (how to read)

Theravādå (how to write) = Theravādo (how to read).
If we using Theravāda, it is wrong spelling n wrong writing.

So, perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.
We need "å".
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Coëmgenu »

Evank me sutank?

Ivanka me sutanka!
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:01 pm
A. Bhikkhu wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:15 pm I have dealt with the topic in detail here (pp. 14-26), if you like: https://www.academia.edu/51439550/M%C4% ... i_Buddhism

Some explanations of nigghīta (ṃ) found in there are somewhat novel, but the general scholarly trend goes definitely in this direction. It is clear that it is neither "m" nor "ṅ", the ancient grammarians are very clear on that ...

Mettā 2u!
Ṭhānuttamo

P.s. Inventing your own Pāḷi alphabet is like reinventing the wheel of course. :)
ṃ/ṁ = nk
ṅ = ng

Saṅghå = Sang-ghå
Suttaṁ = su-t[n]tank


Myanmar using "Saṁghå", it is Myanmar alphabet,
Not Pāḷi. Pāḷi is "Saṅghå".


Perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.

We cant write "Theravādo", it is same
We cant write "hani", but "honey".

And we saying: "ha-ni, not ho-ney"
Honey (how to write) = hani (how to read)

Theravādå (how to write) = Theravādo (how to read).
If we using Theravāda, it is wrong spelling n wrong writing.

So, perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.
We need "å".
Again I ask, if you're learning Pali from a teacher/ youtube, or you're just self studying?

There's a lot of people to convince to use your new alphabet if you wish to, anyway, we don't actually pronounce Theravada as Theravado, we say it the same, Theravada. It might be good to clarify if your background is more of Indonesian style of pronouncing Pali, or your own thing too.

I am from Malaysia, and for my monastery, we use the International style, similar to Sri Lanka pronunciation, and presumably the original way it's meant to be pronounced.
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Coëmgenu wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:26 pm Evank me sutank?

Ivanka me sutanka!
Yes evank me sutank. Not "evang me sutang".

Nk: like hn (hmnn)

Like pink n ping, not same.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:17 pm
Gwi wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:01 pm
A. Bhikkhu wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:15 pm I have dealt with the topic in detail here (pp. 14-26), if you like: https://www.academia.edu/51439550/M%C4% ... i_Buddhism

Some explanations of nigghīta (ṃ) found in there are somewhat novel, but the general scholarly trend goes definitely in this direction. It is clear that it is neither "m" nor "ṅ", the ancient grammarians are very clear on that ...

Mettā 2u!
Ṭhānuttamo

P.s. Inventing your own Pāḷi alphabet is like reinventing the wheel of course. :)
ṃ/ṁ = nk
ṅ = ng

Saṅghå = Sang-ghå
Suttaṁ = su-t[n]tank


Myanmar using "Saṁghå", it is Myanmar alphabet,
Not Pāḷi. Pāḷi is "Saṅghå".


Perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.

We cant write "Theravādo", it is same
We cant write "hani", but "honey".

And we saying: "ha-ni, not ho-ney"
Honey (how to write) = hani (how to read)

Theravādå (how to write) = Theravādo (how to read).
If we using Theravāda, it is wrong spelling n wrong writing.

So, perfecting the alphabet will help a lot of people.
We need "å".
Again I ask, if you're learning Pali from a teacher/ youtube, or you're just self studying?

There's a lot of people to convince to use your new alphabet if you wish to, anyway, we don't actually pronounce Theravada as Theravado, we say it the same, Theravada. It might be good to clarify if your background is more of Indonesian style of pronouncing Pali, or your own thing too.

I am from Malaysia, and for my monastery, we use the International style, similar to Sri Lanka pronunciation, and presumably the original way it's meant to be pronounced.


It is Theravādo (how to pronounce)

How u guys pronounce The Buddhå??
It is "Bu + ddho" not "Bud + dha/dho".

Coz consonant is "half tone" not 2 like "kres".
Same case when we saying lagging.
La-gging not lag-ging.

1. We must using "n" when we spell "dd".
2. How to pronounce is "Bu-d[n]dho".
3. That "n" is ded sound.
4. Push or punch "dh".
5. O is 2 tones = Bu-d[n]dhō

- Dd and tt = put "n" ded sound (mettā: me-t[n]tā)
- Kk and gg = put "ng" (akkocchi: a-k[ng]ko-c[ň]chi)
- Cc and jj = punt "ň" not "ñ" (Vijjā: vi-j[ň]jā)
- Bb and pp = m (nibbanå: ni-b[m]bā-no)
Last edited by Gwi on Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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