Somanasså and domanasså

[Gwi]

Hi guys, can i translate this 2 like this:

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)
2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

[DiamondNgXZ]

Hi guys, can i translate this 2 like this:

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)
2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

You can ask in https://discourse.suttacentral.net/ too.

The way A. Sujato translate them seems to be happiness, sadness. https://suttacentral.net/mn46/en/sujato

Dictionary from there says:

domanassa
n & adjective
(mental) distress, dejection, unhappiness; ill-humor

somanassa
neuter
joy; delight; happiness

[Assaji]

HI Gwi,

Nice to see your meaningful posts.

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)

Not quite. I would rather say "elation".

2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".

[frank k]

...
Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".
..

But often it's used in a context that implies a broad class of negative emotions.
For example, the frequently used expression "vineyya loke abhijja domanassa", and I agree with Abhidhamma Vb interpretation there that it's meant to include the 5 hindrances. Dejection is not the only negative emotion.

Anyway, this is why I hate reading English suttas in isolation, I can only read it with pali next to it now. Every translator is going to pick their own nuanced word and you can't tell what the pali word was, just like with sukha.

[Sam Vara]

...
Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".
..

But often it's used in a context that implies a broad class of negative emotions.
For example, the frequently used expression "vineyya loke abhijja domanassa", and I agree with Abhidhamma Vb interpretation there that it's meant to include the 5 hindrances. Dejection is not the only negative emotion.

Anyway, this is why I hate reading English suttas in isolation, I can only read it with pali next to it now. Every translator is going to pick their own nuanced word and you can't tell what the pali word was, just like with sukha.

, especially the last bit. It seems that the more one looks at the Pali, the less one should trust translators!

[mjaviem]

... It seems that the more one looks at the Pali, the less one should trust translators!

I don't blindly trust translators nor I blindly trust pali texts themselves. Translators imbue their translations with their personal views and understanding and pali scriptures can likely be corrupted.

[Sam Vara]

... It seems that the more one looks at the Pali, the less one should trust translators!

I don't blindly trust translators nor I blindly trust pali texts themselves. Translators imbue their translations with their personal views and understanding and pali scriptures can likely be corrupted.

That's good, m.

[Gwi]

HI Gwi,

Nice to see your meaningful posts.

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)

Not quite. I would rather say "elation".

2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".

Thank you

[Gwi]

HI Gwi,

Nice to see your meaningful posts.

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)

Not quite. I would rather say "elation".

2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".

How bout this?

1. Somanasså: elate (besar hati)
2. Domanasså: dishearten (kecil hati).

I think this 2 is more the right defenition.

[Assaji]

How bout this?

1. Somanasså: elate (besar hati)
2. Domanasså: dishearten (kecil hati).

I think this 2 is more the right defenition.

I don't know Indonesian, but these two sound great, especially since they are aligned in a pair, - and "mano" in this context indeed means "heart" (Indonesian "hati").

If you are earnest about learning the intricacies of Pāli from true scholars, may I recommend you the Pāli group: https://groups.io/g/pali

Semoga sukses

[Gwi]

How bout this?

1. Somanasså: elate (besar hati)
2. Domanasså: dishearten (kecil hati).

I think this 2 is more the right defenition.

I don't know Indonesian, but these two sound great, especially since they are aligned in a pair, - and "mano" in this context indeed means "heart" (Indonesian "hati").

If you are earnest about learning the intricacies of Pāli from true scholars, may I recommend you the Pāli group: https://groups.io/g/pali

Semoga sukses

Thanks to recommending that group.

Besar hati: elate or big heart (besar: big)
Kecil hati: dishearten or dispirited maybe (kecil: small)

[DiamondNgXZ]

HI Gwi,

Nice to see your meaningful posts.

1. Somanasså: jubilance, be gleeful (kegirangan)

Not quite. I would rather say "elation".

2. Domanasså: despondency (nestapa)

Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".

How bout this?

1. Somanasså: elate (besar hati)
2. Domanasså: dishearten (kecil hati).

I think this 2 is more the right defenition.

Might not be suitable. I am a Malaysian, so my impression of besar/ kecil hati means an actual reaction, sankhara, kamma is generated. Whereas Somanassa and domanassa seems like vipaka, resultant, it doesn't necessary leads one to have a besar hati/ big heart (generous, good hearted), or kecil hati/ small heart (stingy, grunge keeping).

[Gwi]

HI Gwi,

Nice to see your meaningful posts.



Not quite. I would rather say "elation".



Maybe, but for precision’ sake, I would rather say "dejection".

How bout this?

1. Somanasså: elate (besar hati)
2. Domanasså: dishearten (kecil hati).

I think this 2 is more the right defenition.

Might not be suitable. I am a Malaysian, so my impression of besar/ kecil hati means an actual reaction, sankhara, kamma is generated. Whereas Somanassa and domanassa seems like vipaka, resultant, it doesn't necessary leads one to have a besar hati/ big heart (generous, good hearted), or kecil hati/ small heart (stingy, grunge keeping).

U must open dictionary to see
The meaning of besar hati n kecil hati.


Not small heart (hati kecil), but "dishearten (kecil hati)".

[Gwi]

Whatever in english, i close with this:

1. Somanasså: sukacita
2. Domanasså: dukacita

Thanks for your time kuys.




* maybe in english joy and woe