etaṁ maṅgalamuttamaṁ.?

[SarathW]

What is the meaning of Muttamam?

[pulga]

What is the meaning of Muttamam?

I think it's a compound. The niggahīta is elided and replaced with "m".


maṅgalam uttamaṁ = blessing-highest

[SarathW]

What is the meaning of Muttamam?

etaṁ maṅgalam uttamaṁ = this-blessing-highest

one Sri Lankan monk (Waharaka linage) argkues it should be (Mangala-muttamam)
Mangala = Samasara life
Uttamam = end, finish

By the way, what is the Pali meaning of Mangala and muttama?

[mikenz66]

What is the meaning of Muttamam?

etaṁ maṅgalam uttamaṁ = this-blessing-highest

one Sri Lankan monk (Waharaka linage) argkues it should be (Mangala-muttamam)
Mangala = Samasara life
Uttamam = end, finish

By the way, what is the Pali meaning of Mangala and muttama?

https://suttacentral.net/define/ma%E1%B9%85gala
https://suttacentral.net/define/uttama

https://suttacentral.net/snp2.4/

Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of the Sutta Nipata should be up soon, then it will be easier to look at the Pali-English relationship, but you can examine a number of translations at that link.


Mike

[pulga]

By the way, what is the Pali meaning of Mangala and muttama?

Muttama isn't a word in Pali. Mangalaṁ is neuter and means "blessing", uttama means "highest". In sandhi sometimes the niggahita is elided and replaced by "m".

[Ontheway]

What is the meaning of Muttamam?

etaṁ maṅgalam uttamaṁ = this-blessing-highest

one Sri Lankan monk (Waharaka linage) argkues it should be (Mangala-muttamam)
Mangala = Samasara life
Uttamam = end, finish

By the way, what is the Pali meaning of Mangala and muttama?

That Sri Lankan monk's translation is wrong. Pulga's translation is correct.


Any Pali Dictionary will give you the same meaning that
1) Mangala = auspicious; auspiciousness; blessings.
2) Uttama = highest; exalted; foremost

If that monk or followers of that monk still want to redefine the meaning of such words, using their own personal interpretation or Sinhalese interpretation, that would be 'Papanca'.

[mikenz66]

Yes, here's some analysis of another unique translation by the Waharaka group, saṃsāra:
viewtopic.php?p=421520#p421520

see also: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/de ... amma/21331 which has a link to an article about the movement.


Mike

[SarathW]

Just for the record, this is the video in the Sinhalese Language.
One of the objectives of the Tipitaka Protectin act was to find, confiscate property, and jail this sort of interpretation.
The Tipitaka protection proposal was defeated by the objection of many monks on the ground that is against Buddha's teaching.
Wrong views have to be eliminated by right views, not by legislation.

[SarathW]

He says Mutta means freedom or free from.
See the comments and the praise from his followers.
I am the only one to oppose the video.

[SarathW]

It is important to note when we recite this in Sinhalese we say:

Mangala Muttamam
not
Mangalam Uttamam

How do English monks recite this?

[Ontheway]

He says Mutta means freedom or free from.
See the comments and the praise from his followers.
I am the only one to oppose the video.

Tipitaka Protection Act might not necessary, but we layperson should equip ourselves with discernment and exposition of Dhamma with Pariyatti, Patipatti and Pativeda.

And if necessary, refute those adhammas. For The Blessed One also praised Anathapindika for doing so:

“Good, good, householder! That’s how you should legitimately and completely refute those foolish men from time to time.” - Kiṁdiṭṭhikasutta

We layperson should aiming to be like Anathapindika, Citta, Visakha, and Nakula-mata.

[mikenz66]

It is important to note when we recite this in Sinhalese we say:

Mangala Muttamam
not
Mangalam Uttamam

How do English monks recite this?

Will Australian do? Also has recollection of Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha at the start.
CHanting text: https://lokanta.github.io/

[SarathW]

I heard that as:
Mangala Muttamam.

By the way, it is great you find that video.
Very soothing chanting.

[Sam Vara]

I heard that as:
Mangala Muttamam.

It can be heard that way, just like the English phrase "some apples" can be heard as "su mapples". It's what happens when the "m"-sound (and some others) is followed by a vowel. But the meaning has been made very clear above.

[mikenz66]

I heard that as:
Mangala Muttamam.

It can be heard that way, just like the English phrase "some apples" can be heard as "su mapples". It's what happens when the "m"-sound (and some others) is followed by a vowel. But the meaning has been made very clear above.

It's tricky isn't it? I suggest studing the scanning rules:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... l_toc_id_3
And Bhikkhu Ānanadajoti's discussion of metre:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... Metres.pdf
On page 11 he discusses this very construct.
It's written there , and on dhammatalks.org as mangalam-uttamaṁ
However, Ven Thanissaro notes:

In this book, wherever possible, many of the long compound words have been broken down with hyphens into their component words to make them easier to read and—for anyone studying Pāli—to understand. This creates only one problem in scanning: When the hyphen is preceded by a consonant (usually m or d) and followed by a vowel, the consonant forms a syllable together with the vowel following the hyphen and not with the vowel preceding it. Thus, for instance, dhammam-etaṁ would scan as dham-ma-me-taṁ, and tam-araṇaṁ as ta-ma-ra-ṇaṁ.

And the short/long syllable breakdown that Ven Ānanadajoti gives for
mangalam-uttamaṁ is:
long short short long short long
That only makes sense if you read it as:
man ga la mut ta maṁ
(using bold for long syllables).
That's the metre I hear on the recording. If it were:
long short short short short long
man ga lam ut ta maṁ
it would sound quite different (and not very good...).

However, I'm no expert, so don't take my word for it!


Mike