Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

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Paccayata
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Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Paccayata »

In the excerpt from the sutta below, what is being referred to as "anxiety" (or agitation in the Bhikkhu Bodhi translation)?

"Upādāparitassanañca vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi anupādāaparitassanañca. Taṁ suṇātha, sādhukaṁ manasi karotha, bhāsissāmī”ti."

“Mendicants, I will teach you how grasping leads to anxiety, and how not grasping leads to freedom from anxiety. Listen and pay close attention, I will speak.” (Bhikku Sujato translation)


It seems like "grasping leads to anxiety" is being translated from "upādāparitassanañca", since upadana is translated as grasping/clinging/attachment.


Entire sutta in English:
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.7/en/suja ... ript=latin

Entire sutta in Pali:
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.7/pli/ms? ... ript=latin
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Sam Vara
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Sam Vara »

Paccayata wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:12 pm In the excerpt from the sutta below, what is being referred to as "anxiety" (or agitation in the Bhikkhu Bodhi translation)?

"Upādāparitassanañca vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi anupādāaparitassanañca. Taṁ suṇātha, sādhukaṁ manasi karotha, bhāsissāmī”ti."

“Mendicants, I will teach you how grasping leads to anxiety, and how not grasping leads to freedom from anxiety. Listen and pay close attention, I will speak.” (Bhikku Sujato translation)


It seems like "grasping leads to anxiety" is being translated from "upādāparitassanañca", since upadana is translated as grasping/clinging/attachment.


Entire sutta in English:
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.7/en/suja ... ript=latin

Entire sutta in Pali:
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.7/pli/ms? ... ript=latin
It's the word paritassanā, which means something like worry, nervousness, anxiety, etc. The compound means something like "grasping-worry" (and the converse "non-grasping-worry") which sounds odd and is translated by Sujato as "leads to". We could also say "associated with", as in "worry associated with grasping", etc.
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mjaviem
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by mjaviem »

Here are more differences between those two translations.

Sujato's:
Anxiety Because of Grasping
...
... So they become frightened, worried, concerned, and anxious because of grasping...
... Cetaso pariyādānā uttāsavā ca hoti vighātavā ca apekkhavā ca upādāya ca paritassati...
Bodhi's:
Agitation through Clinging
...
... Because his mind is obsessed, he is frightened, distressed, and anxious, and through clinging he becomes agitated...
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
Paccayata
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Paccayata »

[/quote]
It's the word paritassanā, which means something like worry, nervousness, anxiety, etc. The compound means something like "grasping-worry" (and the converse "non-grasping-worry") which sounds odd and is translated by Sujato as "leads to". We could also say "associated with", as in "worry associated with grasping", etc.
[/quote]

Excellent! thank you. That makes sense.

Do you happen to know the meaning of the -añca suffix at the end? It seems similar to the ending of papañca so I’m curious of it’s significance.
Paccayata
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Paccayata »

mjaviem wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:55 pm Here are more differences between those two translations.

Sujato's:
Anxiety Because of Grasping
...
... So they become frightened, worried, concerned, and anxious because of grasping...
... Cetaso pariyādānā uttāsavā ca hoti vighātavā ca apekkhavā ca upādāya ca paritassati...
Bodhi's:
Agitation through Clinging
...
... Because his mind is obsessed, he is frightened, distressed, and anxious, and through clinging he becomes agitated...
A helpful comparison. Thank you.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Sam Vara »

Paccayata wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:51 pm
It's the word paritassanā, which means something like worry, nervousness, anxiety, etc. The compound means something like "grasping-worry" (and the converse "non-grasping-non-worry") which sounds odd and is translated by Sujato as "leads to". We could also say "associated with", as in "worry associated with grasping", etc.
[/quote]

Excellent! thank you. That makes sense.

Do you happen to know the meaning of the -añca suffix at the end? It seems similar to the ending of papañca so I’m curious of it’s significance.
[/quote]

That just means "and". It's on the end of both of them because that's how Pali works. Whereas in English we use it once in the middle ("cats and dogs"), in Pali it's like "cats and dogs and".) I don't think it has anything to do with papañca, although a specialist in Pali might be able to verify that.
ssasny
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by ssasny »

Just as Sam Vara said, the end of the word 'papañca' has nothing to do with the Pāli word for 'and' - 'ca'

Upādāparitassanañca vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi

In this clause, -añca is not a suffix. It is a joining of the accusative case 'Upādāparitassanaṃ' (used as it's the direct object of the verb 'desessāmi', combined with the word 'ca'. When these two words join together, the niggahita (ṃ) moves to the palatal nasal (ñ).

PS in regard to the interesting thread on mind, notice the Buddha's instruction here- sādhukaṁ manasi karotha !
'Make this in your mind well', or 'pay attention! ' :smile:
Paccayata
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Re: Translation of "grasping leads to anxiety"

Post by Paccayata »

Thank you all for your assistance. Much appreciated.
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