Studying Pali

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Studying Pali

Post by jcsuperstar »

basicly because thai is kicking my butt...
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Ben »

Kare wrote:Both Gair & Karunatilleke and Collins are good and useful, but in my view Warder is still the best. Once you have worked your way through Warder, you will be able to read canonical Pali fairly easily (of course with the PTS Pali-English Dictionary by your side - and Geiger's grammar not too far away). The commentarial language is another cup of tea - even after mastering Warder you will need some time to get use to the syntax in the commentaries. :reading:

Another book that is very helpful to the beginner, is Rune E.A. Johansson: "Pali Buddhist Texts". Johansson takes you directly into important and interesting texts from the suttas, explaining every word and grammatical feature along the way. Warder gives a far better and broader foundation, but Johansson at least gives you a nice and pleasant "illusion" of being able to read the word of the Buddha from day one. :reading:

If you read German, and are interested in comparing Pali with other Indo-European languages, Mayrhofer "Handbuch des Pali" is a real joy to read - but this is not a good book for learning Pali from scratch. :reading:
Hi Kare

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel and thank you for your review. Like Chris, I am intending to learn Pali and so your comments are especially welcome.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Studying Pali

Post by tiltbillings »

jcsuperstar wrote:basicly because thai is kicking my butt...
For those that do not know, Thai, being a tonal language, does present some problems, having five distinct tones, any one tone will often make a word a very different word from what it might look and sound to us Amero-European types as being the same word pronounced with an indistinguishable different tone. Before I ordained in 1974 in Bangkok with Keith Morgan, Ajahn Munindo, we were staying at this odd little hotel run by a crazy Australian. One of the girls who worked there was named Moi, and every time Keith and I would say her name she would giggle, which got us wondering why. We asked. The way we were pronouncing her name, we were calling her pubic hair. I can't remember now if it was a rising tone or a high tone, but it was sufficient enough that it was a totally different word from how her named should have been pronounced, though it sounded no different to our tin ears. One needs to be careful asking for bananas in Thai.

As for butt kicking, I have been studying Irish diligently for about a year now. I love the language, but sutta Pali is a much easier go. And again I would strongly recommmend Warder's book.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
Kare
Posts: 766
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Kare »

jcsuperstar wrote:basicly because thai is kicking my butt...
Accept the kicks and have fun! :D
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
Posts: 766
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Kare »

Ben wrote: Hi Kare

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel and thank you for your review. Like Chris, I am intending to learn Pali and so your comments are especially welcome.
Metta

Ben
Thank you. Hmmmm .... I should have written a presentation. I'll see what I can do ...
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Studying Pali

Post by cooran »

Hello Kåre,

Your presentation? :D

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
Kare
Posts: 766
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Kare »

Chris wrote:Hello Kåre,

Your presentation? :D

metta
Chris
Look under "Introductions". I posted it on February the 17th.
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Studying Pali

Post by cooran »

Ben wrote:That would be fantastic!
I'll need to organise myself and get the texts first. Life won't settle down for me until the second week of Feb.
I'm looking forward to it!

Ben
Hello Kåre, Ben, all,

Thanks Kåre - got it!

Ben and anyone interested:

My text books have arrived and I'm ready to begin.

How is it with you?

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Ben »

Hi Chris

Unfortunately for me my plans to study pali have been put on the back-burner. Finances are really tight subsisting on my wife's wage and this week I've been caring for a badly injured family pet who I think will be destroyed today.
Start without me.

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Studying Pali

Post by cooran »

Hello Ben,

I'm so sorry to hear of the upsetting news. Forget about the Pali for the moment and concentrate on dealing with the issues arising in Launceston.
I'm holding you in my heart and remembering you in my metta practice. End of life decisions are never easy.
You probably read my thread on my companion dog which begins with his sickness and ends with my deciding to have him put down:
Helping Animals to a better rebirth
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... topic=5316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Studying Pali

Post by cooran »

Hello Ben and all,

Lily de Silva "Pali Primer" is available free as an on-line text at the Vipassana Research Insitute - with fonts:

http://www.vri.dhamma.org/publications/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Studying Pali

Post by Ben »

Chris wrote:Hello Ben,

I'm so sorry to hear of the upsetting news. Forget about the Pali for the moment and concentrate on dealing with the issues arising in Launceston.
I'm holding you in my heart and remembering you in my metta practice. End of life decisions are never easy.
You probably read my thread on my companion dog which begins with his sickness and ends with my deciding to have him put down:
Helping Animals to a better rebirth
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... topic=5316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
Thanks Chris

I've just returned from the Vet where Blaze died a little while ago.
You're right, I have been struggling with a number of issues since earlier in the week when the extent of Blaze's injuries had become clear. Not least of all the morality of euthanasia and the conflicting arguments of what is truly humane and compassionate. Its been a hard week which culminated last night and today. When be brought Blaze in to the vet, she seemed relieved that we had come to the decision to put down Blaze as it certainly appeared to me that further intervention was pointless. Perhaps I'll talk about it more elsewhere rather than hijack this thread.
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
phil
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Studying Pali

Post by phil »

Hi Ben, Chris and all


First of all, very sorry to hear about your pet Ben. Hope everthing plays out with the least possible amount of suffering for everyone involved.

Chris, count me in for a de Silva study group if you can lead it. Very keen on Pali study these days, using that Dhammapada based site and the Narada. (I must admit sometimes I wonder why I'm so keen. The translators can be trusted, I feel, esp. B. Bodhi. But there is something very joyful and invigorating in a wholesome way in reciting Pali phrases, I find.)

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Studying Pali

Post by cooran »

Hello Phil, Ben, all,

I spoke with Bhante Dhammasiha today - he is well versed in Pali. I showed him the books I have:

Intoduction to Pali ~ A.K. Warder
Pali Grammar for Students - Steven Collins
A New Course in Reading Pali ~ entering the World of the Buddha - James W. Gair and W. S. Karunatillake
Pali Primer by Lily de Silva

His suggestion was that I start with Lily de Silva and see how I go. He valued Warder, but wondered if it might be too difficult seeing as I wasn't in a formal class situation.

I am happy to start this week if you and Ben are happy with beginning with the on-line copy of Pali Primer. We can go as slow or as fast as we think necessary.

Anyone else is very welcome to start with us. Once again, the link to the text book is:
http://www.vri.dhamma.org/publications/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who's up for it? :D

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
phil
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Studying Pali

Post by phil »

Hi Ben, Chris and all

Ben, sorry about Blaze.

You know what Chris? I'm thinking now that I might continue with the route I'm on, which is studying Dhammapada verses and learning the grammar as I go in a kind of osmotic (?) way. I'm getting such a kick out of reciting the Pali phrases that I had best carry on with that. I will read any posts you put up based on the primer with interest, but probably won't do the exercises myself. My other problem is that I don't want to study online :coffee: and am already spending a lot of expensive printer ink printing out those grammar explanations for the Dhammapada.

Anyways, I'm sure others will join in on the Primer. Good luck!

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
Post Reply