Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
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dwdanby
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Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by dwdanby »

I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read. Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path? I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life, whereas I never did understand theology in any form. Do the traditions differ in emphasis? (crossposted to dharmawheel)
simsapa
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by simsapa »

The Noble Eightfold Path is the core of the Buddha's teaching in this tradition (Theravada). You should read Bhikkhu Bodhi's text on it. Also Ledi Sayadaw wrote an excellent commentary on it. And the most important thing of all is to bring the teachings into your life, to actually practice them.

Things get considerably more complicated when we talk about the Path in the context of other Buddhist traditions. Someone could argue that the Path is present in the Gelug Tibetan teachings in various ways, but perhaps not in a literal form. Regardless, the Path is taught in this tradition as the way to become enlightened; in their teachings, arhatship is considered an inferior goal to full buddhahood for various reasons.

In Soto Zen, if I remember correctly, my understanding is that Dogen rejected the idea of the calm abiding and insight aspects to meditation: in other words, he rejects Right Concentration and Right Mindfulness as they are taught in our tradition. He also has a different view of enlightenment than what is taught in the suttas. I won't get into that, as there's no need.
I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life
Ultimately, it's a guide to escaping samsara (life) as we know it. Living a virtuous life is a step in the right direction towards that goal by eliminating unnecessary hindrances and wasted time.
Last edited by simsapa on Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
zan
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by zan »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read. Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path? I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life, whereas I never did understand theology in any form. Do the traditions differ in emphasis? (crossposted to dharmawheel)
Classical Theravada is focused on the Eightfold Path. Mahayana is mostly Madhyamaka-Yogacara which focuses on things like instant enlightenment, innate enlightenment, etc. and generally sees the historical Buddha's teachings as inferior. Hence, they named the historical Buddha's teachings "Hinayana" or "Deficient Vehicle," and their own teachings "Mahayana" or "Great Vehicle."

All Mahayana will tell you the Eightfold path is important, but they see their later teachings as superior and promote prajna paramita, the Bodhisattva goal, chanting "Amitabha" to be reborn in the Pure Land after death etc. instead of the traditional Eightfold Path. So, while they will surely not teach against the Eightfold Path, it is not the same main focus as it is in Theravada.

One of the key distinctions is that Theravada is realist, down to earth and pragmatic, broadly speaking, going from the suttas, and setting aside the deep metaphysics teachings. But even if you accept the metaphysics, Theravada is still realist.

Yogacara teaches that everything is imaginary, pure idealism.

Madhyamaka teaches that nothing exists whatsoever, extreme nihilism (unless you agree with Jay Garfield, and I personally do, but most do not).

Vajrayana holds a variety of views similar to Mahayana.

A difference from personal perspective is Zen training may not even mention the Eightfold Path. For example I studied Zen for years and the focus was strictly on Koan study. Koans are recorded sayings of Zen monks, and some Mahayana sutras. Daily chantings were Mahayana sutras like the Heart Sutra and readings of Zen monks, etc. The practice was to constantly, mentally ask a phrase question from a Zen Koan at all times. It was nothing like Theravada training at all.

There are many variances, and even a huge amount of people who call themselves Theravada who see Buddhism as idealism or anti realism, but, broadly speaking, those are the delineations.
Last edited by zan on Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
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Aloka
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Aloka »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read. Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path? I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life, whereas I never did understand theology in any form. Do the traditions differ in emphasis? (crossposted to dharmawheel)
This is a useful book to refer to: " An Introduction to Buddhism - Teachings, History and Practices " by Peter Harvey(Second Edition).

https://toleratedindividuality.files.wo ... ctices.pdf

:anjali:
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cappuccino
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by cappuccino »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am Do the traditions differ in emphasis?
Theravada is the purest
Padipa
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Padipa »

There is an expression: "Zen is for poets, Tibetan for artists & Vipassana (Theravada) for psychologists." There is something to this, but obviously, any simplification of such a complex matter needs to be taken lightly.
SarathW
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by SarathW »

I think most of the traditions are great, however if you start with Theravada it will naturally cover the teachings of most of other traditions.
For instance Mahayana aim at becoming a future Buddha and Theravada aiming at becoming an Arahant in this very life.
So as per Theravada even if you do not become an Arahant, you will be naturally practicing ten Parmitas to be a future Buddhist.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Nick2727
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Nick2727 »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read. Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path? I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life, whereas I never did understand theology in any form. Do the traditions differ in emphasis? (crossposted to dharmawheel)
Depending on what you read the three traditions can seem very similar or very different. All schools of Buddhism have the same core (4 Noble Truths, 8 fold path, 12 links of DO, etc) although some may place emphasis in different areas. For example Theravada seems to stress the 8 fold path most out of the three schools, although I have had some Theravada teachers that rarely bring up the 8 fold path in their teachings and I have had some Tibetan teachers who bring up the 8 fold path in almost every talk the give. There are definitely some generalizations about each tradition, but even those are not always true. If it interests you, keep reading about other traditions and asking questions and maybe something will spark with one over the others. Although, it has been suggested to me countless times and I suggest it as well, find a teacher that has qualities you admire and whose message speaks to you. After finding a teacher like that, follow them.
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Eko Care
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Eko Care »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path?
Definitely different. Although most of traditions use the same words as "Eightfold path, Four Noble truths etc.",
their interpretation is completely different.
Basic Theravada fundamentals are:
  • All the world(five masses) without a remainder is Conditioned, Impermanent, Suffering and Not self. (Most of other traditions keep either the mind or other subtle factor as non-conditioned.)
  • Nothing moves from this life to next life in rebirth. (there is only cause and effect relationship in rebirth)
  • Four noble truths are described in terms of Dhamma theory, Momentariness, Causality .etc.
A good start may be the "Abhidhammatthasangaha" to cover the basics.
dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read.
Ontheway
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Ontheway »

Wouldn't go wrong with Pali Tipitaka and Atthakatha.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Eko Care
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Eko Care »

Nick2727 wrote: All schools of Buddhism have the same core (4 Noble Truths, 8 fold path, 12 links of DO, etc)
No but same phrases. Meanings are different.
zan wrote: One of the key distinctions is that Theravada is realist, down to earth and pragmatic
'Thera' means 'Elder'.
Theravada' means 'The Tradition of the Elders' which have been maintaining the Pali Tipitaka and Atthakatha.
Strive4Karuna
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Re: Brand new to Buddhism and looking at the traditions

Post by Strive4Karuna »

dwdanby wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:42 am I've been doing some reading about the three main traditions, but there is so much to read. Is there a difference among traditions as far as how focused they are on the Eightfold Noble Path? I ask because I find so much good material in it about how to live a good life, whereas I never did understand theology in any form. Do the traditions differ in emphasis? (crossposted to dharmawheel)
Your heart will ultimately guide you to the right tradition

I will say this, there are many doors to the deathless.

Find what connects with you and leads to the most Wholesome growth the fastest.

You will see, everybody is different. Even within the same traditions, Theravada, everybody connects to a different teacher. As long as they are real monks, they keep complete adherence to the vinaya, can’t really go wrong with anybody or any tradition.

Always keep an eye out for those Frauds though, there are a lot of them, even during the time of the Buddha when the Dhamma was much more pure there were frauds, fake monks as the Buddha would call them.
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