Nibbana and death

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char101
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Nibbana and death

Post by char101 »

Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death. Would like to hear second opinion on this :smile:
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bodom
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by bodom »

char101 wrote:Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death.
Only if there's an "I" "me" or "mine" who dies.


:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Kenshou
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by Kenshou »

I've thought about this too. It seems that parinibbana is the same as death from a materialistic standpoint. Unbinding, breaking up of the process, though yes, no "being" dies and all that. I guess the thing about the Buddhist perspective is that it doesn't finally happen until you're actually ready for it, which is nice if it's true.
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acinteyyo
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by acinteyyo »

char101 wrote:Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death. Would like to hear second opinion on this :smile:
Hi,

please tell me what you mean with "death"?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
char101
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by char101 »

@bodom

But there is mind and body which cease to exist after parinibbana and death (if there is no such thing as rebirh). Or is nibbana something more that just the cease of existence?

@Kenshou

No "being" but there is mind and body since it's the realities of a being. I think unexistence is not so much a better option than eternal suffering in samsara. Stastically speaking, from a large number of rebirth cycle, the percentage of suffering and happiness we got is probaby 50/50 ;)

@acinteyyo

If there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of nama and rupa. It seems to me that parinibbana where mind and body totaly cease to exist is the same as death if there is no such thing as rebirth. Is nibbana only a total ending or is there anything that continue to exist?
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mikenz66
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by mikenz66 »

Greetings Char101,

Try reading this Sutta carefully:
MN 72: Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta — To Vacchagotta on Fire
The Buddha explains to a wanderer why he does not hold any speculative views. Using the simile of an extinguished fire he illustrates the destiny of the liberated being.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta
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acinteyyo
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by acinteyyo »

char101 wrote:@acinteyyo

If there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of nama and rupa. It seems to me that parinibbana where mind and body totaly cease to exist is the same as death if there is no such thing as rebirth. Is nibbana only a total ending or is there anything that continue to exist?
You say "death means total cessation of nama+rupa" but I suppose what you really wanted to say is "death means the total cessation of myself" or rather "if there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of myself", don't you? It seems so refering to your post on the Thread "The value of nibbana". This sounds to me that you think you are nama+rupa, and when nama+rupa ceases you would be annihilated. But nama+rupa is anatta, one shall not consider nama+rupa as "mine, I am this, this is my-self". Nibbana is the cessation of greed, hatred and delusion.
What do you mean with "is there anything that continues to exist?"
Take a look at the Kotthita Sutta (AN IV.174) to see how the Buddha answers the question, "What lies beyond Nibbana?"


best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

  • Nibbana is about deathless, rather than death.
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by cappuccino »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:44 pm Nirvana is about deathless, rather than death.
:goodpost:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by Ceisiwr »

“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?

“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ Bhikkhu, bear in mind this brief exposition of the six elements.”
https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:22 pm
“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?

“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ Bhikkhu, bear in mind this brief exposition of the six elements.”
https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
Why even that bhikku was killed by cow?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:02 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:22 pm
“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?

“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ Bhikkhu, bear in mind this brief exposition of the six elements.”
https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
Why even that bhikku was killed by cow?
That would be equating the Arahant with the aggregates.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:43 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:02 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:22 pm

https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
Why even that bhikku was killed by cow?
That would be equating the Arahant with the aggregates.
Why cow attacked 5 aggregates ?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:02 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:43 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:02 pm

Why even that bhikku was killed by cow?
That would be equating the Arahant with the aggregates.
Why cow attacked 5 aggregates ?
Ask the cow :tongue:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and death

Post by SarathW »

Few things to consider.
-Nibbana is realised in this life, not after death.
-You are free from suffering in this life itself.

So Nibbana is still valid and should be striving for.

For people who believe that there is something after Parinibbana, then there could be something after death.
For people who believe that there is nothing after parinibbana (nihilism), death will be the same if they think that there is no rebirth.

Please read the Sutta Safe bet.
"No, lord, there is no teacher agreeable to us, in whom we have found grounded conviction."

"As you have not found an agreeable teacher, you should adopt and practice this safe-bet teaching, for this safe-bet teaching — when accepted and adopted — will be to your long-term welfare & happiness.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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