What do you give to a beginner online?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
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retrofuturist
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Eko Care wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:52 pm
retrofuturist wrote: I'm far more inclined to recommend works which can be reasonably attributed to the Buddha,
The word "reasonably" may depend of the individual's secular beliefs.
retrofuturist wrote:
Ani Sutta wrote: — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness —
Someone secular may think he can understand the deep phenomena. It is natural for them to think like that.
retrofuturist wrote: in favour of monks, scholars and scholar monks.
Generally, most of the modern beginners will think, that they can distinguish everything the Blessed One spoke.
This is a characteristic of a beginner, or of a secular scholar who thinks he is not a beginner.
Actually being a sutta is a pretty good start.

For what it's worth:
- It is not "secular" to take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, rather than to take refuge in Buddhaghosa, Dhammapala and Sangharakkhita.
- As for material to provide to a beginner, Theravada commentaries seem an inappropriate, clumsy and pedantic choice. It would be better for them to be used by a sutta translator, and for those translated suttas to be read by the beginner.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Eko Care
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by Eko Care »

retrofuturist wrote: It would be better for them to be used by a sutta translator, and for those translated suttas to be read by the beginner.
How a beginner get to know the credibility of a particular sutta translator ?
Modern sutta translators obviously have some views which affect his translations. (as well as preface,footnotes, recommendations)
For an example, Puggalavada views.
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Eko Care
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Early Beginner Texts (EBT)

Post by Eko Care »

Early Beginner Texts (EBT) are said to be Dhammapada and Jataka for many.
(If he is not already familiar with Buddhism)

BUDDHIST LEGENDS Translated from the original pali text of the DHAMMAPADA COMMENTARY
(By Eugene Watson Burlingame)
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital ... 11_001.pdf
TRANSLATION OF THE LEGENDS OF THE DHAMMAPADA COMMENTARY Prologue
Praise be unto him that is Highly Exalted, All-Holy, Supremely Enlightened. I bow myself before the feet of the Supremely Enlightened, the All-Glorious. I honor his Good Law. I salute his Order. Shrouded in darkness of error profound was the world, and he dwelt therein and beheld the ends thereof. With wonder-working power alight he lighted the lamp of the Good Law. Skilled was he to know the true from the false in every matter. He, the Teacher, composed the Sentences of the Good Law, and moved with compassion, taught the pleasing Sentences of the Law, which yield increase of joy and satisfaction to gods and men alike. "A subtile Commentary thereon has been handed down from generation to generation in the island of Ceylon. But because it is composed in the dialect of the island, it is of no profit or advantage to foreigners. It might perhaps conduce to the welfare of all mankind." This was the wish expressed to me by Elder Kumara Kassapa, self-conquered, living in tranquillity, steadfast in resolve. His earnest request was made to me because of his desire that the Good Law might endure. Therefore I shall discard this dialect and its diffuse idiom and translate the work into the pleasing language of the Sacred Texts. Whatever in the Stanzas has not been made clear in the Stanzas themselves, whether in letter or in word, all that will I make clear. The rest I will also tell in Pali, in accordance with the spirit of the Stanzas. Thus will I bring to the minds of th^ wise joy and satisfaction in matters both temporal and spiritual.


The Dhammapada: Verses and Stories
(Translated by Daw Mya Tin, M.A.- Edited by Editorial Committee, Burma Tipitaka Association Rangoon, Burma, 1986)
https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/

Buddhist Stories from the Dhammapada Commentary Part II
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/noncano ... index.html

The Dhammapada and its Commentary
http://aimwell.org/dhammapada.html
http://www.aimwell.org/assets/Dhammapada.pdf

Dhammapada Atthakatha English Translation (unsure link)
https://www.e-pdf.cloud/downloads/dhamm ... n-pdf-book

Buddhist Stories From the Dhammapada CommentaryPart I
(Translated from the Pāli by Eugene Watson Burlingame Selected and revised by Bhikkhu Khantipālo)
https://static.sirimangalo.org/pdf/bpsstories1.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-Sayin ... 24-5024023
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/damapada.pdf
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .budd.html
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retrofuturist
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Eko Care,

The Dhammapada itself is a good recommendation, but
a collection of "stories" from outside the Pali Canon which grossly distort the Buddha's teaching hardly seem suitable for a beginner. For example, they invariably teach what one might call "tit for tat" kamma rather than kamma as taught in the Sutta Pitaka. If people think they are to learn Dhamma from stories, rather than simply be mildly entertained by them, they will absorb superstitious and false beliefs about kamma/action, and their ignorance will compound.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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pitakele
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by pitakele »

Suitable for beginners is Ven. S. Dhammika's 'Good Question, Good Answer'
Download free e-book: https://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/thu ... ?album=122

There are many useful titles & sutta translations included in the BPS Wheel & Bodhi Leaf publications

Free Wheel e-books https://www.bps.lk/library_wheels.php

Free Bodhi Leaf e-books https://www.bps.lk/library_bodhileaves.php
aniccā vata saṇkhārā - tesaṁ vūpasamo sukho
BrokenBones
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by BrokenBones »

Padmist wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:22 am If someone online asks "Where do I get started with Buddhism?" or "Where do I learn more about Buddhism?" or "What books/websites/videos/podcasts do you recommend to get started with Buddhism" what do you give?

Please share. Thanks. :juggling:
Podcast... Ajahn Sona
Book... Sutta Nipata... then the rest of the suttas
Website... Measurelessmind (archived)
Forum... Dhammawheel (take two paracetamol before logging on 😆)
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robertk
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by robertk »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:25 pm Greetings Eko Care,

The Dhammapada itself is a good recommendation, but
a collection of "stories" from outside the Pali Canon which grossly distort the Buddha's teaching hardly seem suitable for a beginner. For example, they invariably teach what one might call "tit for tat" kamma rather than kamma as taught in the Sutta Pitaka. If people think they are to learn Dhamma from stories, rather than simply be mildly entertained by them, they will absorb superstitious and false beliefs about kamma/action, and their ignorance will compound.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Is this story from the sutta pitaka in line with kamma?
https://suttacentral.net/ud5.3
Udāna 5.3
Suppabuddhakuṭṭhisuttaṁ 43
The Discourse about the Leper Suppabuddha
[...] Then the leper Suppabuddha having seen the Dhamma, attained the Dhamma, understood the Dhamma, penetrated the Dhamma, crossed over uncertainty, being without doubts, attained full confidence, having become independent of others in the Teacher’s teaching, after rising from his seat went to the Gracious One, and after going and worshipping the Gracious One, he sat down at one side.
[...]
a certain monk said this to the Gracious One: “What was the reason, reverend Sir, what was the cause, through which the leper Suppabuddha became a poor man, a wretched man, a miserable man?”
“Formerly, monks, the leper Suppabuddha was a son of a wealthy merchant in this very Rājagaha. While going to his pleasure park he saw the Pacceka Buddha Tagarasikkhī entering the city for alms, and having seen him, this occurred to him: “Who is this leper roaming around with his leper’s robe?” And having spat, and circumambulated him disrespectfully on the left side, he went away.
As a result of that deed of his for many years, for many hundreds of years, for many thousands of years, for many hundreds of thousands of years, he boiled in the nether regions. And as a result of the remaining part of that deed of his he became a leper in this very Rājagaha, a poor man, a wretched man, a miserable man.
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retrofuturist
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Robert,
robertk wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 am As a result of that deed of his for many years, for many hundreds of years, for many thousands of years, for many hundreds of thousands of years, he boiled in the nether regions. And as a result of the remaining part of that deed of his he became a leper in this very Rājagaha, a poor man, a wretched man, a miserable man.
robertk wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 am Is this story from the sutta pitaka in line with kamma?
Absolutely. It aligns perfectly with MN 130...
MN 130 wrote:Or how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell.'
Rounded off with a little MN 135 on the home stretch...
MN 135 wrote:"There is the case, where a woman or man is ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, he/she grows offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; shows annoyance, aversion, & bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is ugly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to ugliness: to be ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, to grow offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.

...

"So, student, the way leading to short life makes people short-lived, the way leading to long life makes people long-lived; the way leading to sickliness makes people sickly, the way leading to health makes people healthy; the way leading to ugliness makes people ugly, the way leading to beauty makes people beautiful; the way leading to lack of influence makes people uninfluential, the way leading to influence makes people influential; the way leading to poverty makes people poor, the way leading to wealth makes people wealthy; the way leading to low birth makes people low-born, the way leading to high birth makes people highborn; the way leading to stupidity makes people stupid, the way leading to discernment makes people discerning.

Beings are owners of kamma, heir to kamma, born of kamma, related through kamma, and have kamma as their arbitrator. Kamma is what creates distinctions among beings in terms of coarseness & refinement...
The suttas are well-aligned and devoid of patchwork, as explained in SN 12.22
SN 12.22 wrote:Bhikkhus, the Dhamma has thus been well expounded by me, elucidated, disclosed, revealed, stripped of patchwork.
:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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robertk
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by robertk »

retrofuturist wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:10 am Greetings Robert,
robertk wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 am As a result of that deed of his for many years, for many hundreds of years, for many thousands of years, for many hundreds of thousands of years, he boiled in the nether regions. And as a result of the remaining part of that deed of his he became a leper in this very Rājagaha, a poor man, a wretched man, a miserable man.
robertk wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 am Is this story from the sutta pitaka in line with kamma?
Absolutely. It aligns perfectly with MN 130...
MN 130 wrote:Or how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell.'
Rounded off with a little MN 135 on the home stretch...
MN 135 wrote:"There is the case, where a woman or man is ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, he/she grows offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; shows annoyance, aversion, & bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is ugly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to ugliness: to be ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, to grow offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.

...

"So, student, the way leading to short life makes people short-lived, the way leading to long life makes people long-lived; the way leading to sickliness makes people sickly, the way leading to health makes people healthy; the way leading to ugliness makes people ugly, the way leading to beauty makes people beautiful; the way leading to lack of influence makes people uninfluential, the way leading to influence makes people influential; the way leading to poverty makes people poor, the way leading to wealth makes people wealthy; the way leading to low birth makes people low-born, the way leading to high birth makes people highborn; the way leading to stupidity makes people stupid, the way leading to discernment makes people discerning.

Beings are owners of kamma, heir to kamma, born of kamma, related through kamma, and have kamma as their arbitrator. Kamma is what creates distinctions among beings in terms of coarseness & refinement...
The suttas are well-aligned and devoid of patchwork, as explained in SN 12.22
SN 12.22 wrote:Bhikkhus, the Dhamma has thus been well expounded by me, elucidated, disclosed, revealed, stripped of patchwork.
:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
:bow: :bow: :bow:
Very happy to see this Paul. :toast:
simsapa
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by simsapa »

If someone online asks "Where do I get started with Buddhism?" or "Where do I learn more about Buddhism?" or "What books/websites/videos/podcasts do you recommend to get started with Buddhism" what do you give?
"Don't be a jerk, and calm down."
Mudita1
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by Mudita1 »

Buddha has a teaching to answer to your question.
Refer to this URL: https://www.vbgnet.org/Articles/Message ... n-2010.pdf

Beginner is introduced with:
1. Avoid Evil
2. Do Good
3. Result of doing good - Heaven
4. Danger, Folly and Depravity of Sensual Pleasures
Good enough for layperson.

If he/she has interest to further cultivate, then:
5. Renunciation - simile of the four thoroughbred steeds
6. 1st Ariyan Truth, Dukkha
7. 2nd Ariyan Truth, Cause
8. 3rd Ariyan Truth, Cessation
9. 4th Ariyan Truth, Path

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu
Dhammavamsa
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by Dhammavamsa »

Just my humble suggestion, "What Buddhists Believe" by Bhante K Sri Dhammananda Mahanayaka Thera, published by Buddhist Maha Vihara.

A free pdf copy can be obtained from buddhanet.
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Gwi
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by Gwi »

For non-buddhist (as well as buddhist [beginner]):
"Majjhima Nikaya 01, 02, 03 ... 15" is enough.

MN 01: Mūlapariyāya Suttaṁ
MN 02: Sabbāsava Suttaṁ
MN 03: Dhammadāyāda Suttaṁ
MN 04: Bhayabherava Suttaṁ
MN 05: Anaṅgaṇa Suttaṁ


MN 06: Ākaṅkheyya Suttaṁ
MN 07: Vattha Suttaṁ
MN 08: Sallekha Suttaṁ
MN 09: Sammādiṭṭhi Suttaṁ


MN 10: Satipaṭṭhāna Suttaṁ
MN 11: Cūḷasīhanāda Suttaṁ
MN 12: Mahāsīhanāda Suttaṁ
MN 13: Mahādukkhakkhandha Suttaṁ
MN 14: Cūḷadukkhakkhandha Suttaṁ
MN 15: Anumāna Suttaṁ
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
thomaslaw
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by thomaslaw »

Padmist wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:22 am If someone online asks "Where do I get started with Buddhism?" or "Where do I learn more about Buddhism?" or "What books/websites/videos/podcasts do you recommend to get started with Buddhism" what do you give?

Please share. Thanks. :juggling:
Suggested core reading:

Rahula, Walpola, What the Buddha Taught (Second and enlarged edition 1974; reprinted by different publishers)

Further reading:

Choong, Mun-keat, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A Comparative Study Based on the Sūtrāṅga portion of the Pāli Saṃyutta-Nikāya and the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama (Series: Beitrage zur Indologie Band 32; Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000).

:reading: :buddha1:
Ontheway
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Re: What do you give to a beginner online?

Post by Ontheway »

Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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