What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

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ToVincent
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by ToVincent »

ToVincent wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:17 pm As for AN 4.173 / SA 249

To the questions:
With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six fields of sensory transference (contact), is it the case that — there is anything else?” — "not anything else?”— "both is & is not anything else?”

The answers are:

However far the six fields of sensory transference go, that is how far the visible (developed) world (pra-pañca) goes. However far the development of the visible world goes, that is how far the six fields of sensory transference go. With the remainderless fading & stopping of the six fields of sensory transference , there comes to be the stopping, the end of the visible world .
AN 4.73

After the extinction of the six sense-spheres of transference (contact,) and the fading away of desire, after cessation, after ending, there is fading away of all meaningless argument and the attaining of nirvāṇa, then this is the teaching of the Buddha.”
SA 249

Namely, this means that beyond the six sense-spheres of transference (contact) (phas­sāyata­nā­na) — that is to say, beyond any internal sensory experience — there is nothing left pertaining to this world* — no vision, no smell, no taste,... no intellection (with the mano).
Everything becomes the domain of the citta - with no more "mine" = nibbāna with remnant.
Then with the end of the citta - and the end of the "I" - comes nibbāna without remnant.

Note that in no way, does the mano experience nibbāna.
Having nothing, nothing to bind on,
this is the island with nothing beyond,
this is called Nibbāna, I say,
the end of old age and death.

Akiñcanaṃ anādānaṃ,
etaṃ dīpaṃ anāparaṃ;
Nibbānaṃ iti naṃ brūmi,
­jarāmac­cu­parik­kha­yaṃ.
Snp 5.11

-----

* The world:
The eye, forms, eye-consciousness, eye-contact and whatever feeling arises with eye-contact as condition.
The ear … The mano … Whatever feeling arises with mano-contact as condition.

.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

:thanks:

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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Aloka
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Aloka »

Hi Padmist,

You might find this book helpful :

"The Island" - an anthology of the Buddha's teachings on Nibbana by Ajahn Amaro and Ajahn Pasanno.

https://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-books/the-island/

Its also worth reading the introduction by Ajahn Sumedho.


:anjali:
Anukampati
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Anukampati »

On this topic, I recently came across a quote from Bhikkhu Sīlacāra (1871-1951) that struck me as memorable:

[The Buddha's teaching] "is simply a method of bringing that world [that is immediately present] to an end, and allowing to supervene that other state which takes its place when place is made for it, Nibbāna. This Nibbāna is not caused, not originated, does not have any beginning. It simply makes its presence known when all that is opposed to it is removed. ... By the very fact of our position in this world, doing all our thinking with brains belonging to this world — since, what other brains have we got to think with? — it is quite impossible to state what that ultimate state, Nibbāna is, in words of this world."

— "The Buddha's Two Voices," from The Buddhist Annual of Ceylon Vol. III, No. 2 (1928), reprinted in Bodhi Leaves No. 80, Buddhist Publication Society 1978
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Frank23 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:42 pm On this topic, I recently came across a quote from Bhikkhu Sīlacāra (1871-1951) that struck me as memorable:

[The Buddha's teaching] "is simply a method of bringing that world [that is immediately present] to an end, and allowing to supervene that other state which takes its place when place is made for it, Nibbāna. This Nibbāna is not caused, not originated, does not have any beginning. It simply makes its presence known when all that is opposed to it is removed. ... By the very fact of our position in this world, doing all our thinking with brains belonging to this world — since, what other brains have we got to think with? — it is quite impossible to state what that ultimate state, Nibbāna is, in words of this world."

— "The Buddha's Two Voices," from The Buddhist Annual of Ceylon Vol. III, No. 2 (1928), reprinted in Bodhi Leaves No. 80, Buddhist Publication Society 1978
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“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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seeker242
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by seeker242 »

It's a verb, not a noun, meaning the ending of suffering. Not a thing, not a place, not a time, just the end of suffering.
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cappuccino
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by cappuccino »

seeker242 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:32 pm Not a thing, not a place …
“There is that sphere where there is no earth, no water, no fire nor wind; no sphere of infinity of space, of infinity of consciousness, of nothingness or even of neither-perception-nor non-perception; there, there is neither this world nor the other world, neither moon nor sun; this sphere I call neither a coming nor a going nor a staying still, neither a dying nor a reappearance; it has no basis, no evolution and no support: this, just this, is the end of dukkha.”
~ Ud 8.1
2600htz
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by 2600htz »

Padmist wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:24 pm
  • Is it arahantship?
  • Is it above arahantship?
  • Is it a place after death? Where is it?
  • Is it a level of mental state that transcend the material / mental experience / plane / existence?
  • Is it just a mental state? Ala, Stephen Batchelor who said "I define it as the Buddha defines it...'freedom from the poisons of greed, hatred, and confusion,'"
I ask because you'll come across some people who claims they are already enlightened or had nirvana experience. (Noah Smith, Daniel Ingram) That or some people would share a Youtube video of scientists explaining some mental states. If I say "No", I can't really describe that it is, so what is it really? How would you describe it?
Hi:

Arahantship is "nibbana with residue" (Having the experience of ending all craving and continue living on a finite body). Parinibbana is "nibbana without residue" (What happens to an arahant after death).

In the case of arahantship its easier to define, because you can define it as a person that still posseses some personality traits, a particular body, a particular voice, a particular mentality, etc. Just that its a person without any greed, hatred or delusion in their minds.

In the case of parinibbana is harder to define, because its hard for us to grasp the idea that "something that didnt exist in the first place cant be defined in terms of existence".

Regards.
Last edited by 2600htz on Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kusala
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Kusala »

Padmist wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:24 pm
  • Is it arahantship?
  • Is it above arahantship?
  • Is it a place after death? Where is it?
  • Is it a level of mental state that transcend the material / mental experience / plane / existence?
  • Is it just a mental state? Ala, Stephen Batchelor who said "I define it as the Buddha defines it...'freedom from the poisons of greed, hatred, and confusion,'"
I ask because you'll come across some people who claims they are already enlightened or had nirvana experience. (Noah Smith, Daniel Ingram) That or some people would share a Youtube video of scientists explaining some mental states. If I say "No", I can't really describe that it is, so what is it really? How would you describe it?
The Nature of Nirvana

King Milinda said: "I will grant you, Nagasena, that Nirvana is absolute ease, and that nevertheless one cannot point to its form or shape, its duration or size, either by simile or explanation, by reason or by argument. But is there perhaps some quality of Nirvana which it shares with other things, and which lends itself to a metaphorical explanation?"

"Its form, O King, cannot be elucidated by similes, but its qualities can."

"Nirvana shares one quality with the lotus, two with water, three with medicine, ten with space, three with the wishing jewel, and five with a mountain peak. As the lotus is unstained by water, so is Nirvana unstained by all the defilements. As cool water allays feverish heat, so also Nirvana is cool and allays the fever of all the passions.

Moreover, as water removes the thirst of men and beasts who are exhausted, parched, and thirsty, and overpowered by heat, so also Nirvana removes the craving for sensuous enjoyments, the craving for further becoming, the craving for the cessation of becoming. As medicine protects from the torments of poisons, so Nirvana protects from the torments of the poisonous passions. Moreover, as medicine puts an end to sickness, so Nirvana puts an end to all sufferings.

Finally, Nirvana and medicine both give security. And these are the ten qualities which Nirvana shares with space. Neither is born, grows old, dies, passes away, or is reborn; both are unconquerable, cannot be stolen, are unsupported, are roads respectively for birds and Arhats to journey on, are unobstructed and infinite.

Like the wishing jewel, Nirvana grants all one can desire, brings joy, and sheds light. As a mountain peak is lofty and exalted, so is Nirvana. As a mountain peak is unshakeable, so is Nirvana. As a mountain is inaccessible, so is Nirvana inaccessible to all the passions. As no seeds can grow on a mountain peak, so the seeds of all the passions cannot grow in Nirvana. And finally, as a mountain peak is free from all desire to please or displease, so is Nirvana!"


"Well said, Nagasena! So it is, and as much I accept it."


https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut045.htm#nature
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
befriend
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by befriend »

Imagine your mind not having personality view, clinging to rites and rituals, doubt, greed, aversion, clinging to material rebirth, immaterial rebirth, conceit, restlessness or ignorance. Very peaceful mind I like to imagine.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Pondera
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by Pondera »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:07 pm
seeker242 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:32 pm Not a thing, not a place …
“There is that sphere where there is no earth, no water, no fire nor wind; no sphere of infinity of space, of infinity of consciousness, of nothingness or even of neither-perception-nor non-perception; there, there is neither this world nor the other world, neither moon nor sun; this sphere I call neither a coming nor a going nor a staying still, neither a dying nor a reappearance; it has no basis, no evolution and no support: this, just this, is the end of dukkha.”
~ Ud 8.1
Nirodha Samapatti
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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confusedlayman
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by confusedlayman »

Pondera wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:08 am
cappuccino wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:07 pm
seeker242 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:32 pm Not a thing, not a place …
“There is that sphere where there is no earth, no water, no fire nor wind; no sphere of infinity of space, of infinity of consciousness, of nothingness or even of neither-perception-nor non-perception; there, there is neither this world nor the other world, neither moon nor sun; this sphere I call neither a coming nor a going nor a staying still, neither a dying nor a reappearance; it has no basis, no evolution and no support: this, just this, is the end of dukkha.”
~ Ud 8.1
Nirodha Samapatti
also paribinnana
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
pegembara
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by pegembara »

An important word for describing Nibbāna is asaṅkhata (‘not constructed’). Nibbāna does not exist as a result of causes or conditions.
Still being dependent, there is wavering. Not being dependent, there is no wavering. There being no wavering, there is tranquillity. With tranquillity, there is no favouring. With no favouring, no coming and going. With no coming and going, no passing away and arising. With no passing away and arising, there is neither this world, the other world, nor a between-the-two. This is the conclusion of suffering.
https://buddhistteachings.org/buddhadha ... eme-peace/
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: What is Nirvana/Enlightenment really?

Post by cappuccino »

Parinirvana
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