Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

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Ryan95227
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by Ryan95227 »

2600htz wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:47 pm Hi:

Man you are right, restrain is a core buddhist teaching, but it sound like you have a tendency for mortification.

What is a tendency for mortification? Its when someone has a tendency for being hard on themselves, a tendency to want to avoid bad things by means of force, a tendency to focus on the unpleasantness, and being high on effort. You could add difficulty staying with your object of meditation because of interest on what is pulling you out. Or even choosing unpleasant objects of meditation.

Right restrain is not just restrain. It involves coming back to a wholesome object.

Hindrances actually increase if you start to drop everything that gives you pleasure and you keep your attention on the unpleasant.


Regards.
I've never managed to break free from the sensual pleasures of the modern world and moderation has only produced futile results.. For some reason, I'm now viewing sensual pleasures in the same light as heroine, cigarette, illegal prostitution. Basically, any activities/drugs that can cause one of the worst withdrawals and consequences. By knowing how dangerous it is to delight in pleasure, it certainly gets easier to restrain. The wholesomeness out of this is that I seem to be very content in just about anything and even slightest amount of sensual pleasure can keep me preoccupied. So far, it seems the right method is to drop everything AFTER discerning just how bad it is to achieving contentdness
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DooDoot
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by DooDoot »

Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 pm what is meant by "careful attention" here?
Hi Ryan. My impression is careful attention here means giving careful attention or reflection towards the Teachings that were previously heard, as follows:
Hearing the good Dhamma, becoming full, fills up faith. Faith, becoming full, fills up careful attention.
Again, here:
Bhikkhus, this is the forerunner and precursor of the rising of the sun, that is, the dawn. So too, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu this is the forerunner and precursor for the arising of the Noble Eightfold Path, that is, … accomplishment in careful attention. When a bhikkhu is accomplished in careful attention, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate this Noble Eightfold Path.

https://suttacentral.net/sn45.57-61/en/bodhi
Or here:
When he has investigated him and has seen that he is purified from states based on delusion, then he places faith in him; filled with faith he visits him and pays respect to him; having paid respect to him, he gives ear; when he gives ear, he hears the Dhamma; having heard the Dhamma, he memorises it and examines the meaning of the teachings he has memorised; when he examines their meaning, he gains a reflective acceptance of those teachings; when he has gained a reflective acceptance of those teachings, zeal springs up; when zeal has sprung up, he applies his will; having applied his will, he scrutinises; having scrutinised, he strives; resolutely striving, he realises with the body the supreme truth and sees it by penetrating it with wisdom. In this way, Bhāradvāja, there is the discovery of truth; in this way one discovers truth; in this way we describe the discovery of truth. But as yet there is no final arrival at truth.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
:candle:
Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 pm Is mindfulness referring to being "observant" about the craving that is arising?
Mindfulness referring to being "observant" to stop any craving from arising.

Mindfulness does not mean to observe sense objects. Mindfulness means to remember and to not forget to practise the teachings.

Kind regards :smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:33 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Ryan95227
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by Ryan95227 »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:22 am
Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 pm what is meant by "careful attention" here?
Hi Ryan. My impression is careful attention here means giving careful attention or reflection towards the Teachings that were previously heard, as follows:
Hearing the good Dhamma, becoming full, fills up faith. Faith, becoming full, fills up careful attention.
Again, here:
Bhikkhus, this is the forerunner and precursor of the rising of the sun, that is, the dawn. So too, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu this is the forerunner and precursor for the arising of the Noble Eightfold Path, that is, … accomplishment in careful attention. When a bhikkhu is accomplished in careful attention, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate this Noble Eightfold Path.

https://suttacentral.net/sn45.57-61/en/bodhi
Or here:
When he has investigated him and has seen that he is purified from states based on delusion, then he places faith in him; filled with faith he visits him and pays respect to him; having paid respect to him, he gives ear; when he gives ear, he hears the Dhamma; having heard the Dhamma, he memorises it and examines the meaning of the teachings he has memorised; when he examines their meaning, he gains a reflective acceptance of those teachings; when he has gained a reflective acceptance of those teachings, zeal springs up; when zeal has sprung up, he applies his will; having applied his will, he scrutinises; having scrutinised, he strives; resolutely striving, he realises with the body the supreme truth and sees it by penetrating it with wisdom. In this way, Bhāradvāja, there is the discovery of truth; in this way one discovers truth; in this way we describe the discovery of truth. But as yet there is no final arrival at truth.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
:candle:
Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 pm Is mindfulness referring to being "observant" about the craving that is arising?
Mindfulness referring to being "observant" to stop any craving from arising.

Mindfulness does not mean to observe sense objects. Mindfulness means to remember and to not forget to practise the teachings.

Kind regards :smile:
thanks!. It really looks like I must hear the "correct dhamma" and reflect upon it to realize the mundane right view and thereby practice sensual restraint.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by cappuccino »

Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:48 pm For some reason, I'm now viewing sensual pleasures in the same light as heroine
quite extreme


how will you remain lay?
Ryan95227
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by Ryan95227 »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:16 am
Ryan95227 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:48 pm For some reason, I'm now viewing sensual pleasures in the same light as heroine
quite extreme


how will you remain lay?
I need to support my parents and still have some uncertainty (myanmar experiencing impermanence). When I have the opportunity to engage in web browsing such as youtube, I get a bit frightened of its drawbacks (it really makes me depressed after engaging in it because my dependence is strengthened)
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cappuccino
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by cappuccino »

Ryan95227 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:03 am I get a bit frightened of its drawbacks
there is no danger if you enter the stream
Mudita1
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Re: Is sense restraint the key to arahantship?

Post by Mudita1 »

The simple answer to your question is yes.
However, arahant need ALL noble 8 folded path, sense restraint is part of them.

Layperson is not full-time professional like Sangha members, even Sangha members only a handful will strike as arahant. In view of that, understood gaming forum and eating a chocolate was so destructive is good, the journey to reach arahantship is very long, and we are all here cultivating ourselves at different stages of our journey.

For layperson, the best we can achieve probably is 1st fruit ariyan (arahant is 4th fruit ariyan). In my opinion, once a person is in 1st fruit, he/she will see worldly things not worth the effort and will become a monk, and walk the path. Definitely sense restrain is part of many restrains.

A person that has a wish to strike in worldly life, has not yet determined to be a monk, sense restrain is difficult and close to impossible. We cannot have on one hand wanting worldly gain, at the same time also wanting arahantship, the formal one is "to gain", the later one is "to let go", totally opposite direction.
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