Confession for lay people

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tmt93
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Confession for lay people

Post by tmt93 »

In the mahayana there is alot of emphasis on confession. Is this emphasized in theravada? This is excluding the monastic formula. Its seems theres more of an emphasis on reaffirming your commitment to act in a wholesome way and avoid what is unwholesome. Not so much of making a confession so you dont experience the fruits of your kamma.
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Nicolas
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Nicolas »

My understanding of confession is that it is a realignment of view and establishment of hiri-ottappa ("shame & fear of wrongdoing").

If someone does an unwholesome action, not thinking/knowing it was unwholesome (no hiri-ottappa there), and later realizes that it was unwholesome, thus "confessing", there is the understanding of what is wholesome and what is not wholesome (in regards to that one type of action), there is remorse, and one has thus corrected their view and path with regard to that action. The action is not corrected in that it has indelibly occurred in the past, but similar actions are less likely to occur in the future. The confession is thus an internal realization at its core, and vocalizing it in front of witness(es) can make it more powerful (because as social creatures, most people care a lot about what others think of them: "peer pressure", be it passive or active). This is a way in which confession can be seen as purifying.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Dhammanando »

tmt93 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:27 pm In the mahayana there is alot of emphasis on confession.
Confession in what sense? Do you mean that there's a lot of emphasis on the ritualistic recital of a confession formula, e.g. as the opening part of certain Mahayana pujas? Or do you mean that Mahayanists are encouraged to regularly approach a kalyanamitra to tell him all about their misdeeds, as Roman Catholics would do with their priest?
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tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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tmt93
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by tmt93 »

Dhammanando wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:38 pm
tmt93 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:27 pm In the mahayana there is alot of emphasis on confession.
Confession in what sense? Do you mean that there's a lot of emphasis on the ritualistic recital of a confession formula, e.g. as the opening part of certain Mahayana pujas? Or do you mean that Mahayanists are encouraged to regularly approach a kalyanamitra to tell him all about their misdeeds, as Roman Catholics would do with their priest?
The first scenario. Ritualistic confession with four powers of regret, resolve not to repeat, refuge or reliance on three jewels, and remedy such as confession. Although tibetan texts do mention some things can only be purified in certain ways. There are some instances I believe where its asserted you must confess to a preceptor.
Last edited by tmt93 on Tue May 25, 2021 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DooDoot
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammanando wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:38 pm Or do you mean that Mahayanists are encouraged to regularly approach a kalyanamitra to tell him all about their misdeeds, as Roman Catholics would do with their priest?
Venerable. Do Theravada Bhikkhus do a form of the above with each other? Thanks
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Dhammanando
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Dhammanando »

DooDoot wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:49 am Venerable. Do Theravada Bhikkhus do a form of the above with each other? Thanks
The Vinaya requires that if a bhikkhu commits an offence in the daytime he should confess it before sunset; if he commits one at nighttime he should confess it before dawn. If he neglects to do so he commits the dukkata offence of concealing an offence. But if there's no bhikkhu to confess to, or if the only bhikkhu available has himself committed the very same offence (and is therefore prohibited from receiving his confession), then he can avoid a dukkata by making a mental resolve to confess as soon as he meets a suitable bhikkhu.

In modern monastic practice, the bhikkhus in strict monasteries will follow the above to the letter. In lax monasteries they will "save up" their offences until the next Uposatha day and then make general confession just before the Pātimokkha recital.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Dhammavamsa
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Dhammavamsa »

I always recite a standard Pali stanza during my daily 1 hour chanting session:

"Kayena vaca cittena,
Pamadena maya katam;
Accayam khama me Bhante,
Bhuripanna(ya) Tathagata."

means (not word by word translation):
Whatever heedless deeds I have done, through body, speech or mind; please forgive me Venerable Sir, Wise Tathagata.

I understand that those misdeeds I have done in the past (e.g. killing lots of ants before I embraced Buddhism), couldn't be simply erased by any beings, but reciting this helps me recollect myself and carry on the practice.
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DooDoot
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammavamsa wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 2:16 am I always recite a standard Pali stanza during my daily 1 hour chanting session:

"Kayena vaca cittena,
Pamadena maya katam;
Accayam khama me Bhante,
Bhuripanna(ya) Tathagata."

means (not word by word translation):
Whatever heedless deeds I have done, through body, speech or mind; please forgive me Venerable Sir, Wise Tathagata.
Very good post.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Mangaka
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Mangaka »

Hello, I would like to ask if monk or nun breaks precept or any rule of Vinaya, they have to confess to concrete monk/nun towards which there was that rule violation (like lieing) or formal confession to sangha is alright (to any suitable monastic)?
And about lay followers.. there aren't any rules about confession for laity in scriptures or are there? I heard some time ago something in sence like:
"If you break any preacept, realize it and you can tell to your good friend about your mistake and make decision to ve more careful next time."
From that I understand, that confessions can be done to any person.

More simply said.. the more a person (both monastics and laity) understand that it was violation of precept or rule and want to be more careful next time, these are important steps in developement of themselfs.
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Alino »

Mangaka wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:08 am Hello, I would like to ask if monk or nun breaks precept or any rule of Vinaya, they have to confess to concrete monk/nun towards which there was that rule violation (like lieing) or formal confession to sangha is alright (to any suitable monastic)?
And about lay followers.. there aren't any rules about confession for laity in scriptures or are there? I heard some time ago something in sence like:
"If you break any preacept, realize it and you can tell to your good friend about your mistake and make decision to ve more careful next time."
From that I understand, that confessions can be done to any person.

More simply said.. the more a person (both monastics and laity) understand that it was violation of precept or rule and want to be more careful next time, these are important steps in developement of themselfs.
There are two sollutions.

If the broken precept involved someone (killing, lying, stealing, cheating) then you need to confess it to the person to whom your action bring prejudice or suffering.

If the broken precept involved only your consciousness (killing, drugs and sexual activity, overeating, oversleeping, entertaining for 8 precepts) then you need to confess it to your preceptor or (if you have no preceptor) to one who you respect, or one to whom you annonced that you train yourself with the precept that you broke. For example you anounced to someone thet you never drink and thet you drunk something intentionally - you should better to confess your fault to that person.

Imho 🙏
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"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
Mangaka
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by Mangaka »

It is applied for monastics? What about lay persons?There was already mention here in topic. What about confession like during daily recitations at home, for example in front of your home altar with Buddha statue.
Last edited by Mangaka on Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
maniture_85
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by maniture_85 »

tmt93 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:27 pm In the mahayana there is alot of emphasis on confession. Is this emphasized in theravada? This is excluding the monastic formula. Its seems theres more of an emphasis on reaffirming your commitment to act in a wholesome way and avoid what is unwholesome. Not so much of making a confession so you dont experience the fruits of your kamma.
Confession implies that you think about your past bad action,speech,thinking, and then tell those to another person.
In this way it is a recall to your "soul": wake up and find wrongs you've done. By telling them to another, you will tell them to yourself.
If you are a lay following Dhamma, it could be a way to get aware of your wrong doings and maybe, hopefully, get some wise advices.
No shame. Shame is a wrong view since everyone make wrongs, as anyone is fully enlightened. In case, fix it.

:anjali:
maniture_85
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Re: Confession for lay people

Post by maniture_85 »

maniture_85 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:51 am ..as anyone is fully enlightened..

:anjali:
"..as anyone is Not fully enlightened..". Sorry :jumping:
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