Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
Post Reply
Motova
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:48 am

Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Motova »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology

Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Thank you.
SarathW
Posts: 21236
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by SarathW »

The attainment of stream-entry (sotapatti) guarantees that all future rebirths will be in the human or higher realms.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... /loka.html

However, there is no single evidence that Sotapann was born as a human in Buddha's time even though there are lot of Sotapanna reborn stories in Sri Lanka which I do not believe.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
bodhifollower
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:37 am

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by bodhifollower »

All as far as I know.
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Dhammanando »

Motova wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:36 pm Which heavens may one attain stream entry?
In theory in all of them except the realm of impercipient beings and the four formless realms. I suppose we could also add the five Pure Abodes since you need to be already a non-returner to get born in one.

In practice, however, it's noticeable that attainment narratives get fewer and fewer the higher you go. In fact accounts are rare for any realm higher than Tavatimsa. Whether this because attainment happens less often in the higher heavens or merely because narratives of any sort about these places are rather thin on the ground, I've no idea.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Motova
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:48 am

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Motova »

Is it easier in specific heavens?

Are there specific heavens one should go to if they wish to attain stream entry?
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by confusedlayman »

Motova wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:25 pm Is it easier in specific heavens?

Are there specific heavens one should go to if they wish to attain stream entry?
If u cant attain in human realm.. how can u attain in heaven when pleasures are more?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by cappuccino »

Motova wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:25 pm Is it easier in specific heavens?
easiest here
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by cappuccino »

For it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant... not-self, would realize the fruit of stream-entry.

Silavant Sutta: Virtuous
Dhammavamsa
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 3:57 pm

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Dhammavamsa »

Ideally, I hope to attain at least Sotapanna or Sakadagami here and now in this life before death comes.

Then proceed to heavenly worlds or human realm subsequently, and continue striving for Anagami ... Maybe like in the case of Brahma Tudu or Brahma Sahampati...

At least the doors of woeful states can be closed forever.


For me, going to heaven, without achieving at least Sotapanna, is a trap and no difference from falling to woeful states ...
Last edited by Dhammavamsa on Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Dhammanando »

Motova wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:25 pm Is it easier in specific heavens?

Are there specific heavens one should go to if they wish to attain stream entry?
Nothing is said in the texts about stream-entry being easier to attain in one heaven rather than another. All we have to go by are the attainment narratives and in most of these the attainers are actually terrestrial devas. But as I remarked earlier, nothing much can be concluded from this because of the paucity of any sort of narratives involving the higher devas and brahmās.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Motova
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:48 am

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Motova »

Is there a list of deities who have attained stream entry?
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammavamsa wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:05 pm Ideally, I hope to attain at least Sotapanna or Sakadagami here and now in this life before death comes.
Motova wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:36 pm Which heavens may one attain stream entry?
Stream-entry is freedom from doubt about the path of peace & happiness. Therefore, the heaven to attain stream-entry is the heaven of always pleasant meditation experiences, as follows:
It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the heaven named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable.

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.135/en/bodhi
:smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by auto »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:59 am ..
And how that negates the heaven as an abode where you can have a fine material body with heaven named contact's sixfold base?
Dhammavamsa
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 3:57 pm

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by Dhammavamsa »

Motova wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:29 pm Is there a list of deities who have attained stream entry?
For that you will need to read all Suttas to find out their names. Not to mention that in certain Suttas such as Cula Rahulovada sutta, it is said that:

"...That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Rahula delighted in the Blessed One's words. And while this explanation was being given, Ven. Rahula's mind, through no clinging (not being sustained), was fully released from fermentations. And to those many thousands of devas there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.""

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

So it is kinda difficult to list out all their names. :rofl:

Now the stainless Dhamma Eye is the main characteristic of a Sotapanna. Just like what is happened to Ven. Anna Kondanna Arahant Thera when he listen to Buddha's first sermon - Dhammacakkappavatana Sutta.

To name a few, the Devas that attained Sotapanna Maggaphala after encountering Buddha are Sakka Devaraja, Suriya Devaputta, Canda Devaputta, Manduka Devaputta, Vessavana Maharaja, and many more nameless Devaputtas and Devadhitas.

One interesting article for your reference:
https://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Buddhism/l ... 4.html#ch2
Deleted
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Which heavens may one attain stream entry?

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammavamsa wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:00 pm Now the stainless Dhamma Eye is the main characteristic of a Sotapanna. Just like what is happened to Ven. Anna Kondanna Arahant Thera when he listen to Buddha's first sermon - Dhammacakkappavatana Sutta.
Ven. Kondanna was not an Arahant after he listen to Buddha's first sermon - Dhammacakkappavatana Sutta.

Also, after Ven. Kondanna listened to the Buddha's first sermon, the heavenly (joyful) realisation in his mind was:
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the group of five monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, there arose to Ven. Kondañña the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Post Reply