I need an advise on choosing a path

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kenteramin
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:04 am

I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by kenteramin »

I have a new and growing sense of spiritual urgency. Perhaps a passing one. I ask for an advise while it's still present. I should mention that the last thing I want is to deem disrespectful. I hope you bear it in mind.

I'm in a sense invested in the Emptiness and possibly in the Two Truth. Invested philosophically and a little bit experientially. All my experience subtly points towards it.

I'm hopefully at the very beginning of my Buddhist journey. Having walked for a while on the spiritual path I feel it's time I choose a framework.

I like the simplicity and straightforwardness of Theravada. Some of the teachers who's damma I listen are American buddhist grown in Theravada tradition. Should I nevertheless pick Mahayana? Given that I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real. Real to the extent things like time, space and causal connections are real.
Is it compatible with being a Theravadin?

P.S. I should mention that I live an a country with no Sanga. Almost. The same goes for every country we have borders with. So, there's almooost no asking someone IRL
simsapa
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by simsapa »

I ask for an advise while it's still present.
Find a real teacher in real life. You say this will be hard. Well, it's necessary. Save up and go somewhere else if you need to. Check out their qualities and make sure they're a good person. Charisma and privilege are poor indicators of being a good teacher.
I should mention that the last thing I want is to deem disrespectful. I hope you bear it in mind.
Why would you be disrespectful?
I'm in a sense invested in the Emptiness and possibly in the Two Truth. Invested philosophically and a little bit experientially. All my experience subtly points towards it.
In the forest traditions, they think like this: "If you're invested in emptiness, then try going into the forest and confronting a tiger. Or a wild elephant. Then, let's see if thoughts of protecting yourself come up, or if you run away. Or, let's see what happens when something very difficult happens: you lose something valuable, or something very painful happens. Let's see if you can handle that as if the experience and what is lost is not yours". It's easy to talk about "emptiness". Not easy to actually realize it.
I like the simplicity and straightforwardness of Theravada.
I'm not sure what you mean by simplicity.
Should I nevertheless pick Mahayana?
This is a Theravada-oriented board.
Given that I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real. Real to the extent things like time, space and causal connections are real.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Is it compatible with being a Theravadin?
Avoid the 10 unwholesome courses of action, and cultivate a precept-oriented life as much as possible. If one has a desire to truly realize the path, then the other parts of the path (samadhi and panna) become relevant. "Being" in a certain tradition is meaningless without a way of life based on ethics, mental cultivation, and wisdom.
Last edited by simsapa on Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Nick2727
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by Nick2727 »

kenteramin wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:15 pm I have a new and growing sense of spiritual urgency. Perhaps a passing one. I ask for an advise while it's still present. I should mention that the last thing I want is to deem disrespectful. I hope you bear it in mind.

I'm in a sense invested in the Emptiness and possibly in the Two Truth. Invested philosophically and a little bit experientially. All my experience subtly points towards it.

I'm hopefully at the very beginning of my Buddhist journey. Having walked for a while on the spiritual path I feel it's time I choose a framework.

I like the simplicity and straightforwardness of Theravada. Some of the teachers who's damma I listen are American buddhist grown in Theravada tradition. Should I nevertheless pick Mahayana? Given that I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real. Real to the extent things like time, space and causal connections are real.
Is it compatible with being a Theravadin?

P.S. I should mention that I live an a country with no Sanga. Almost. The same goes for every country we have borders with. So, there's almooost no asking someone IRL
I am not sure where you are located, but there are many online Sangha's that you can participate in, especially now with the pandemic going on. Like the previous reply stated, having a teacher is essential. You can read books, watch videos, and practice by yourself, but what happens when problems start arising in your practice? Or what if you have a misunderstanding from your solo study that causes problems in the future? A good teacher will be able to recognize these things in their students and provide the right antidote.

I am not too knowledgeable on the Theravada philosophical views, but if you are interested in Emptiness and the Two Truths there are many many resources to study about this. I personally enjoy studying and find it helps in my practice, but its also important to realize that study itself is not the same as experience. I feel comfortable explaining to someone (at a basic level) impermanence, nonself, emptiness, etc, yet I still grasp to things and still have many things to work on in the spiritual path.

Picking Mahayana or Theravada should only come down to your aspiration. Is your goal to become an arhat or a bodhisattva? Ultimately if you do not accept the four noble truths, no Buddhist path will work for you.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: I need an advice on choosing a path

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

kenteramin wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:15 pm Should I nevertheless pick Mahayana? Given that I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real.
You have already not understood emptiness, so forget about Mahayana. The 4NT are real enough to be the main cause of all kinds of suffering & ignorance.

So first study the value of Refuge & the three elements of Refuge - Buddha, Dhamma & Sangha. When you have some confidence or faith in the Three Gems then study the Four Noble Truths.

Books and articles by Nyanaponika is one source, others will chime in with more.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Gwi
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by Gwi »

The emptiness is (1) our body is empty of soul,
(2) empty of immortality, and
(3) empty of true-happiness
(this world only has "ups and downs", not
A true-happiness)

Not empty like an empty barrel.

empty = nothing.

no soul
no eternal
no true-happiness.

Why? Because the eternal
is nibbāna, the true happiness
is nibbāna. Nibbāna is unconditioned.



Cattāri Ariya-Saccāni means
Four Noble Truths,
Not "emptiness".

Sacca = truth
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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ddeck
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by ddeck »

kenteramin wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:15 pm ...I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real. Real to the extent things like time, space and causal connections are real.
This seems to be mixing up spirituality and philosophy which, for serious theravada practitioners is a dangerous trap to be avoided. Buddhism isn't a philosophy as many people claim, it's a path to liberation. The noble truths are truths in that they perfectly encapsulate the way sentient beings experience suffering. The question of whether they have some sort of metaphysical "reality" to them is a distraction. Take them as a working hypothesis and see if you can uncover them for yourself.
SarathW
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by SarathW »

If you are interested in Mahayana you can join our sister website Dharma Wheel or Dharma Paths.
However, I believe Mahayana also teaches Four Noble Truths.
Perhaps you should consider joining a Secular Buddhist group.
It is gradual training, so you can move on based on your experience.
Last edited by SarathW on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
user99
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by user99 »

Mahanyana
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

kenteramin wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:15 pm I'm in a sense invested in the Emptiness and possibly in the Two Truth. Invested philosophically and a little bit experientially. All my experience subtly points towards it.

I like the simplicity and straightforwardness of Theravada. Some of the teachers who's damma I listen are American buddhist grown in Theravada tradition. Should I nevertheless pick Mahayana? Given that I can't in good faith accept something like the Four Noble Truths as objective facts, only as conventionally real. Real to the extent things like time, space and causal connections are real.
Is it compatible with being a Theravadin?
1. Theravadas also have 2 levels of truths, ultimate and conventional truths. However, there's a bit of different way of describing ultimate truth, but the Abhidhamma analysis is meant for you to see all dhammas are empty of self from there.

2. Only when you're an arahant or Buddha does the 4 Noble truth becomes not as important, but still even Buddhas rely on 4 Noble truths to teach unenlightened people. So don't worry about conventional or ultimate, if you're at the start of your Buddhist journey, basically, you'll need to take it super seriously, cannot afford to throw out the raft of the Dhamma.

3. Indeed, you should choose tradition based on whether you want to be arahant or Buddha mainly.
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Aloka
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by Aloka »

Hi Kenteramin,

Here are two useful links:

An outline of Buddhism:

https://www.watpahnanachat.org/an-outline-of-buddhism-1

...and the Buddhanet worldwide search facility for finding Buddhist groups, centres and monasteries

http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/index.php

With metta,

Aloka :anjali:
bpallister
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by bpallister »

i suggest thai forest and/or Pure Land
Ontheway
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by Ontheway »

Theravada (Vibhajjavada)
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
dharmacorps
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Re: I need an advise on choosing a path

Post by dharmacorps »

At this early stage, it is best to have an in-person teacher or virtually available teacher. If you don't see the 4 noble truths as real, then all schools of Buddhism will be equally foreign to you. They are realities, truths of existence. They aren't just things dispensed for you to think about.
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