Is there any other support in the tradition for this idea?If one read a Sutta (Buddha Discourses), you will understand Buddha Gotama was an Ariya on his past life. (See MN 81 Ghatikara Sutta).
How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
You can also find his conversation with Ghatikara Deva on SN 1.50 Ghaṭīkāra Sutta
You can also look at DN 14 Mahapadana Sutta that a hint from Buddha: If he takes an existence in Pure abodes, He will never return to this world.
Gathikara Deva is a Non Returner that has a new existence in Pure Abode, while Buddha is an Arahant. Both have the final bodies after the mind is inwardly developed.Such was the meeting that took place
Between those friends from the past,
Both now inwardly developed,
Bearers of their final bodies.
You can also look at DN 14 Mahapadana Sutta that a hint from Buddha: If he takes an existence in Pure abodes, He will never return to this world.
So when Prince Siddhartha is still Bodhisatta, he is on his way to reach Arahant Phala. As an Ariya, you don't need a teacher to teach you to reach Nibbana. Many Sutta support this claim like MN 56 Upali Sutta and others.‘It’s not easy to find an abode of sentient beings where I haven’t previously abided in all this long time, except for the gods of the pure abodes.
Why don’t I go to see them?’
As I described before, First step is Right View / Right Understanding about 4 Noble Truth (SN 56.11).Then Upāli saw, attained, understood, and fathomed the Dhamma. He went beyond doubt, got rid of indecision, and became self-assured and independent of others regarding the Teacher’s instructions.
Last edited by Joe.c on Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Nope. He was a Bodhisatta. Not an Ariya. That's why sometimes he was reborn as a Deva, sometimes a Naga, sometimes an animal, sometimes a human...If one read a Sutta (Buddha Discourses), you will understand Buddha Gotama was an Ariya on his past life.
Ariya = Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami and Arahat.
If he was an Ariya, no way he becomes Sammasambuddha in the future.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Ontheway wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:26 pmNope. He was a Bodhisatta. Not an Ariya. That's why sometimes he was reborn as a Deva, sometimes a Naga, sometimes an animal, sometimes a human...If one read a Sutta (Buddha Discourses), you will understand Buddha Gotama was an Ariya on his past life.
Ariya = Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami and Arahat.
If he was an Ariya, no way he becomes Sammasambuddha in the future.
Also if he were a Sottapanna he wouldn't have practised the austerities he did with the group of five ascetics. Since that isn't the middle way.
'Suppose there were a beetle, a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of him. He, because of that, would look down on other beetles: 'Yes, sirree! I am a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of me!' - SN 17.5
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Anyone in this world can have many views or believe in anythings as Buddha said.
Remember to study his discourses that are deep, transcendental, peace, and dealing with Sunyata. Also, has only focus attention on 4NT. The discourses will always like a web support one another, any fake one can be identified.
Best of luck with your path.
Remember to study his discourses that are deep, transcendental, peace, and dealing with Sunyata. Also, has only focus attention on 4NT. The discourses will always like a web support one another, any fake one can be identified.
Best of luck with your path.
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
Suppose there was a man needing a water-snake, seeking a water-snake, wandering in search of a water-snake. He would see a large water-snake and grasp it by the coils or by the tail. The water-snake, turning around, would bite him on the hand, on the arm, or on one of his limbs, and from that cause he would suffer death or death-like suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the water-snake. In the same way, there is the case where some worthless men study the Dhamma... Having studied the Dhamma, they don't ascertain the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment. Not having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they don't come to an agreement through pondering. They study the Dhamma both for attacking others and for defending themselves in debate. They don't reach the goal for which [people] study the Dhamma. Their wrong grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term harm & suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the Dhammas.
- Alagaddupama Sutta
Last edited by Ontheway on Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: How Do You Defend the Arahant Ideal?
There is no need to enter the debate area. Just remember that people may have different opinion. And it is their right to have their own opinion. Wright or Right, it depends on which side you are.
However just be sure to save your life first before saving other life. You cannot teach the others about Dhamma, if you never see & realize yourself. Otherwise, you would be a blind-man who lead a pack of blind-mans (who think you have seen it) plunging into an abyss.
Good luck