WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

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O'seeker
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WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by O'seeker »

Where does consciousness come from and why does it exist if there is no "self"?

Who made consciousness?
Shonin
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Shonin »

O'seeker wrote:Who made consciousness?
Bit of a loaded question there...
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bodom
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by bodom »

Where does consciousness come from and why does it exist if there is no "self"?


See the Nalakalapiyo Sutta, SN 12.67.
"Consciousness comes from name-and-form as its requisite condition."..."It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form...."If one were to pull away one of those sheaves of reeds, the other would fall; if one were to pull away the other, the first one would fall. In the same way, from the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness, from the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form...."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
This is our foundation: to have sati, recollection, and sampajañña, self-awareness, whether standing, walking, sitting, or reclining. Whatever arises, just leave it be, don’t cling to it. Whether it’s like or dislike, happiness or suffering, doubt or certainty... Don’t try to label everything, just know it. See that all the things that arise in the mind are simply sensations. They are transient. They arise, exist and cease. That’s all there is to them, they have no self or being, they are neither ‘us’ nor ‘them’. None of them are worthy of clinging to.

- Ajahn Chah
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bodom
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by bodom »

Also Mahatanhasankhayasuttam MN 38.
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. If consciousness arises on account of eye and forms, it is reckoned as eye consciousness. If on account of ear and sounds it arises, it is reckoned as ear consciousness. If on account of nose and smells it arises, it is reckoned as nose consciousness. If on account of tongue and tastes it arises, it is reckoned as tongue consciousness. If on account of body and touch it arises, it is reckoned as body consciousness. If on account of mind and mind-objects it arises, it is reckoned as mind consciousness. Bhikkhus, just as a fire is reckoned based on whatever that fire burns - fire ablaze on sticks is a stick fire, fire ablaze on twigs is a twig fire, fire ablaze on grass is a grass fire,..so too is consciousness reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises.
:anjali:
This is our foundation: to have sati, recollection, and sampajañña, self-awareness, whether standing, walking, sitting, or reclining. Whatever arises, just leave it be, don’t cling to it. Whether it’s like or dislike, happiness or suffering, doubt or certainty... Don’t try to label everything, just know it. See that all the things that arise in the mind are simply sensations. They are transient. They arise, exist and cease. That’s all there is to them, they have no self or being, they are neither ‘us’ nor ‘them’. None of them are worthy of clinging to.

- Ajahn Chah
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Alexei
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Alexei »

O'seeker wrote:Who made consciousness?
It's a question of Mara the Evil One :)

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This puppet is not made by itself,
Nor is this misery made by another.
It has come to be dependent on a cause,
When the cause dissolves then it will cease.

As when a seed is sown in a field
It grows depending on a pair of factors:
It requires both the soil's nutrients
And a steady supply of moisture.

Just so the aggregates and elements,
And these six bases of sensory contact,
Have come to be dependent on a cause;
When the cause dissolves they will cease.
Shonin
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Shonin »

So the obvious next question is....

Who made 'Mara the Evil One' and where is he represented on the 12 Nidanas?
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Lazy_eye
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Lazy_eye »

Maybe instead of "who made consciousness" we might first ask "what is consciousness"?

LE
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Individual »

Wonderful replies
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
lojong1
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by lojong1 »

"Consciousness" covers many non-buddhist interpretations. People might respond as though you are using a buddhist definition, but I guess that's unlikely because you're asking the question. There is citta (mind/consciousness)...

MN 78: "What is the cause of unskillful habits? Their cause is stated, and they are said to be mind-(citta)-caused. Which mind? — for the mind has many modes & permutations. Any mind with passion, aversion or delusion: That is the cause of unskillful habits."

What causes citta? You wrote the OP with more than one citta, you might have had tens of thousands of consciousnesses between then and now, I don't know. What caused this one? Now what caused this one? Now what caused this one?
lojong1
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by lojong1 »

Who made the river? All the streams from all the individual drops of rain that have been wearing away the dirt and rocks since way back... before there was a river, there were causes of the river.
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cooran
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

There is no ''Who''.

You may find your answer is here:

Transcendental Dependent Arising - A Translation and Exposition of the Upanisa Sutta
By Bhikkhu Bodhi

What is the supporting condition for consciousness? 'Kamma formations' should be the reply.
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... rising.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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mikenz66
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi O'Seeker,

To add to the replies above, the Buddha addresses the question of the arising of conciousness via dependent arising when admonishing Sati, the Fisherman's son, in MN 38:
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... ta-e1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many bhikkhus, heard that this evil view had arisen to a bhikkhu, named Sāti the son of a fisherman: 'As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else'.
...
Then the Blessed One, addressed the bhikkhus:
Bhikkhus, do you too know this Teaching, wrongly grasped by the bhikkhu Sāti the son of a fisherman. By that he blames me. Destroys himself, and accumulates much unpleasantness.
No, venerable sir. In various ways we are told, that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause there is no arising of consciousness.
Bhikkhus, it is good, you know the Teaching preached by me. In various ways I have preached that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, this bhikkhu Sāti son of a fisherman, grasping this wrong view blames me and destroys himself, and accumulates much demerit. It will be for his undoing and unpleasāntness for a long time.
:anjali:
Mike
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Hanzze
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Laurens
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by Laurens »

define conciousness. You need to be clear about what you mean with words like that. It's the same with 'God' its so very often left undefined that it makes any argument pretty useless....
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
alan
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Re: WHO MADE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Post by alan »

WE DON'T KNOW!
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