SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

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mikenz66
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SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by mikenz66 »

SN 1.76 [SN i 43 SN i 96] Najīrati: Does Not Decay
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi


http://suttacentral.net/en/sn1.76

"What decays, what does not decay?
What is declared the deviant path?
What is the impediment to wholesome states?
What undergoes destruction night and day?
What is the stain of the holy life?
What is the bath without water?

“How many fissures are there in the world
Wherein the mind does not stand firm?
We’ve come to ask the Blessed One this:
How are we to understand it?”

“The physical form of mortals decays,
Their name and clan does not decay.
Lust is declared the deviant path,
Greed the impediment to wholesome states.

“Life undergoes destruction night and day;
Women are the stain of the holy life:
Here’s where menfolk are enmeshed.
Austerity and the holy life—
That is the bath without water.

“There are six fissures in the world
Wherein the mind does not stand firm:
Laziness and negligence,
Indolence, lack of self-control,
Drowsiness and lethargy—
Avoid these fissures completely.” [135]

Note

[135] The Pāli terms for the six fissures (chiddāni) are: ālassa, pamāda, anuṭṭhāna, asaṃama, niddā, tandi.
Spk-pṭ: These six things are called fissures because they do not give an opportunity for wholesome states of mind to occur.
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Kumara
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Kumara »

I see that I've a few "fissures". :-) Checking my mind, I realise that I like them. Checking further I realise that I need to look more into the drawbacks (ādīnava). There's insufficient concern for old age and death. Thanks!
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plwk
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by plwk »

Women are the stain of the holy life:
Here’s where menfolk are enmeshed.


:coffee:
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mikenz66
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by mikenz66 »

I was waiting for someone to spot that...

Agree or disagree? :sage:

:anjali:
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piotr
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by piotr »

Hi,
mikenz66 wrote:Agree or disagree? :sage:
He agrees (start at 18:46):


  • (...) So that's the reason why monk has to live in the forest. Not because he wants to live with the animals or anything like that, but the purpose is to get away from human. Humans are the monks worst enemies, especially woman.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
santa100
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by santa100 »

plwk wrote:Women are the stain of the holy life:
Here’s where menfolk are enmeshed.
By the same token, one can see that:
Men are the stain of the holy life:
Here's where womenfolk are enmeshed
when the discourse is recited for the bhikkhunis audience. Nothing personal..
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Mkoll
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Mkoll »

santa100 wrote:
plwk wrote:Women are the stain of the holy life:
Here’s where menfolk are enmeshed.
By the same token, one can see that:
Men are the stain of the holy life:
Here's where womenfolk are enmeshed
when the discourse is recited for the bhikkhunis audience. Nothing personal..
:goodpost:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
yikeren
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by yikeren »

Their name and clan does not decay.
I'm more interested in the meaning of "name and clan". Anyone?
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Mkoll
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Mkoll »

yikeren wrote:
Their name and clan does not decay.
I'm more interested in the meaning of "name and clan". Anyone?
Ven. Bodhi's footnotes are silent on this.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
culaavuso
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by culaavuso »

yikeren wrote:
Their name and clan does not decay.
I'm more interested in the meaning of "name and clan". Anyone?
Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of the Saṃyutta Nikāya does not have any footnote associated with the term. The original pali appears to be nāmagotta, a compound of nāma and gotta. This compound is used elsewhere in the canon in places that appear to quite literally mean name and clan, such as:
MN 35: Cūḷasaccaka Sutta wrote: Some of the Licchavis, after announcing their name and clan, sat to one side.
MN 41: Sāleyyaka Sutta wrote: Some of them, announcing their name and clan in his presence, sat to one side.
DN 3: Ambaṭṭha Sutta wrote: Now, Ambaṭṭha, following your ancient name and clan, on your mother’s and father’s sides, there
are Sakya noble sons [sons of the masters]; but you are a Sakya’s slave-girl’s son [descendent]. But the Sakyas, Ambaṭṭha, regard the rajah Okkāka as their ancestor.
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

yikeren wrote:
Their name and clan does not decay.
I'm more interested in the meaning of "name and clan". Anyone?
My guess is that they are both intangibles and therefore not subject to physical forces of deterioration. However, names reside in the minds of others for the purpose of identifying the object they represent. While the object itself is subject to decay, the name remains unaffected in and of itself. However since name resides in mind, and mind is dependent upon brain, and brain is a physical organ subject to decay and death, then name decays as mind decays. The same for clan, since it is also nothing more than a name identifying a group or tribe subject to the same processes as name. :tongue:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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piotr
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by piotr »

Hi,

Commentary says that name and clan of past Buddhas is spoken up to this day, therefore it is said that it does not decay.

"nāmagottaṃ na jīratīti atītabuddhānaṃ yāvajjadivasā nāmagottaṃ kathiyati, tasmā na jīratīti vuccati."
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

piotr wrote:Hi,

Commentary says that name and clan of past Buddhas is spoken up to this day, therefore it is said that it does not decay.

"nāmagottaṃ na jīratīti atītabuddhānaṃ yāvajjadivasā nāmagottaṃ kathiyati, tasmā na jīratīti vuccati."
"Name and Clan" have not decayed by those who know it and speak it accurately. But, how do those of us who have no knowledge of those names (The Name of The Buddhas, and the names of their clans) know for a fact that there has been no decay or modification ? Simply because something is written does not make it a fact.

:zzz:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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piotr
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by piotr »

Hi Ron,

Well, that's the Commentary... For me the original is just more poetic, saying that in the end if anything might remain after me it will be me in the memories of others. Which makes the point that it is not much, or at least less than usually people hope for.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: SN 1.76 Najīrati: Does Not Decay

Post by Mkoll »

piotr wrote:Hi Ron,

Well, that's the Commentary... For me the original is just more poetic, saying that in the end if anything might remain after me it will be me in the memories of others. Which makes the point that it is not much, or at least less than usually people hope for.
:goodpost:

I came to a similar conclusion.

This sutta does come from the Sagathavagga of the SN which has a lot of verse.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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