skandha wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 9:50 pm
SDC wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:47 am
sunnat wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 am
Sensations are phenomena that are sensed by means of the six sense organs, in other words feelings, including mind-feelings, like thoughts, ideas, memories. See chachakka sutta, six sets of six.
Yes that is a great sutta, but all I see is the six sense base (internal/external), consciousness, contact, feeling, craving, etc., but if sensation is only touch of the body then I’m not sure how it applies to all the other senses as well. There doesn’t seem to be a word for this idea of all of the senses uniting under the “sensations”. If anything that is more reminiscent of the usage of “dhamma”, which if we keep in mind dhammānupassanā of MN 10, all of these concepts are found as objects/phenomena within the scope of that reflection —— but it goes without saying that dhamma is far broader than mere sensation.
The word that comes to my mind for this idea of all of the senses uniting under "sensations" is phassa, which is commonly translated as contact. Other translations include sensations, sense impression.
Yes, that is often how it is used, but if we look at a very concise sutta about
phassa (contact), it is described as something much different. According to the suttas, contact has more to do with taking the six sense base as mine:
SN 35.71 wrote:Bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu does not understand as they really are the origin and the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape, in the case of these six bases for contact, then he has not lived the holy life; he is far away from this Dhamma and Discipline.”
When this was said, a certain bhikkhu said to the Blessed One: “Here, venerable sir, I am lost, for I do not understand as they really are the origin and the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape, in the case of these six bases for contact.”
“What do you think, bhikkhu, do you regard the eye thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Good, bhikkhu! And here, bhikkhu, you should clearly see the eye as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ This itself is the end of suffering.
“Do you regard the ear thus…? Do you regard the mind thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Good, bhikkhu! And here, bhikkhu, you should clearly see the mind as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ This itself is the end of suffering.”
SN 35.72 wrote:Bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu does not understand as they really are the origin and the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape, in the case of these six bases for contact, then he has not lived the holy life; he is far away from this Dhamma and Discipline.”
When this was said, a certain bhikkhu said to the Blessed One: “Here, venerable sir, I am lost, for I do not understand as they really are the origin and the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape, in the case of these six bases for contact.”
“What do you think, bhikkhu, do you regard the eye thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“Good, bhikkhu! And here, bhikkhu, you should clearly see the eye as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ Thus this first base for contact will be abandoned by you for no future renewed existence.
“Do you regard the ear thus…? Thus this second base for contact will be abandoned by you for no future renewed existence….
“Do you regard the mind thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“Good, bhikkhu! And here, bhikkhu, you should clearly see the mind as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ Thus this sixth base for contact will be abandoned by you for no future renewed existence.”
Also
saḷāyatanapaccayā phasso....the six sense base is the condition for contact, so even though there is clearly a relationship, they are different aspects. I don't think there is any justification for putting phassa in the middle of saḷāyatana, which is what this notion of sensations clearly does. That is what I meant earlier when I said that it always seems to be a mixture of perception, contact, and conceiving - sensations are everywhere and nowhere among terms that have distinct meanings and positions in the description of DO.
It does not appear as though this is what the Venerable Nun was speaking about in her verses. She uses the Pali word
asuci meaning not pure. She doesn't need to examine touches of the body to
know about the aspects of the body that are not pure.
I really don't mean to push my case so far, but I see no grounds for saying she was body sweeping for sensations to be equanimous towards. The whole notion of considering impurities is to be disgusted with the body to destroy lust - forcing equanimity upon this reflection would be misplaced, as it would put out the fire one is attempting to use purposefully.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3