Profile: Ugga of Vesālī (Week of June 6, 2021)

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Re: 📍 Profile: Ugga of Vesālī (Week of June 6, 2021)

Post by SDC »

JohnK wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:02 pm
SDC wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:53 am
JohnK wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:56 pm the only difference I saw in the sutta was the reference in quality 1 to carousing and drunkenness -- but now I have to read it more carefully to be sure of that (even the details about the wives seems the same, verbatim).
...
I know this is getting in the weeds, but I said I would check to see where there are differences in the two suttas - that is, the two suttas on the amazing qualities of Ugga (of Vesali and of Hatthigama).
Quaility #1 as mentioned above (drunkeness that vanished).
Quality #5 in the Ugga of Hatthigama sutta combines the previous sutta's qualities #4 and #5 -- so, he attends bhikkhus with respect AND listens with respect or teaches.
This combination allows an additional quaility as #6:
(6) “It isn’t unusual that when the Saṅgha has been invited by me for a meal, deities come and report to me: ‘That bhikkhu, householder, is liberated in both respects. That one is liberated by wisdom. That one is a body witness. That one is attained to view. That one is liberated by faith. That one is a Dhamma follower. That one is a faith follower. That one is virtuous, of good character. That one is immoral, of bad character.’ Still, when I am serving the Saṅgha, I do not recall thinking: ‘Let me give this one little, let me give that one a lot.’ Rather, I give with an equal mind. This is the sixth astounding and amazing quality found in me.
Quality #8 is worded differently but is just a different way of declaring himself to be a non-returner.
That's all I saw -- a bit off-topic, but I wanted to report back on what I said I would do.
Thanks for that bit of digging, John!
Pulsar
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Re: 📍 Profile: Ugga of Vesālī (Week of June 6, 2021)

Post by Pulsar »

Your selection from Salayatana Samyutta SN 35.124 writes 
“What is the cause, sir, what is the reason why some sentient beings aren’t
fully extinguished in the present life?"
I recalled Ananda asking either Buddha or Sariputta the very same question,
but forgot the source sutta, so I did a google search and I find the answer on Dhammawheel,
on my  jhana thread. So much for memory.
When memory fails search engines do the retrieval.
viewtopic.php?t=34757&start=510
Answer there is more sophisticated, is blamed on Faulty Perception. Sutta under discussion gives a more elaborate answer. A condensed excerpt 
There are sounds … smells … tastes … touches … thoughts known by the mind that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.
If a mendicant approves, welcomes, and keeps clinging to them, their consciousness
relies on that and grasps it.

A mendicant with grasping does not become extinguished.
That’s the cause, that’s the reason why some sentient beings aren’t fully extinguished
in the present life.
  • In other words one who delights at this stuff, is killed by that delight.
    No nibbana for those who grasp.
  • Alternately, one who does not grasp, is nibbanized.
Sutta writes
 A mendicant free of grasping becomes fully extinguished in this very life
Dereast SDC, thanks for the pursuit of Ugga of Vesālī, and the nice assembly of suttas.
The info on this sutta consolidates trends I detect in Sutta Pitaka.
Multiple suttas repeatedly point to the significance of DO.
Those who do not grasp this truth, are constantly fishing for a consciousness. Why go to a body of water for fishing, when consciousness sits terrestrially, metaphorically speaking.
Your contribution to Sutta Study is greatly appreciated. 
Wish you a happy weekend spent in the reflection of Dhamma.
With love  :candle:
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Re: 📍 Profile: Ugga of Vesālī (Week of June 6, 2021)

Post by SDC »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:45 am
There are sounds … smells … tastes … touches … thoughts known by the mind that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.
If a mendicant approves, welcomes, and keeps clinging to them,their consciousness
relies on that and grasps it.
A mendicant with grasping does not become extinguished.
That’s the cause, that’s the reason why some sentient beings aren’t fully extinguished
in the present life.
  • In other words one who delights at this stuff, is killed by that delight.
Wonderful!

That delight and lust is one’s “intimate companion” just sitting there waiting to kill you: SN 35.238.
Pulsar
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Re: 📍 Profile: Ugga of Vesālī (Week of June 6, 2021)

Post by Pulsar »

SDC wrote
That delight and lust is one’s “intimate companion” just sitting there waiting to kill you: SN 35.238.
I will try not to delight at your wonderful response to my comment, since that very delight might prove to by my death.
It is nice to have compassionate and benevolent companions in this holy life to admonish and instruct us.
This is how Yamaka SN 22.85 ends.
Let this sutta study group admonish and instruct us.
With love :candle:
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