I'm having trouble following some of this. Is anyone saying this "background" (or citta [or mano]) is actually a "thing", rather than just a description of the overall functioning of the processes? What I would argue is that "liberated citta" or "unliberated citta" refer to whether those processes are free of defilements or not free of defilements etc...ssasny wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:55 pmThanks for this clarification, I do think I understand your point better now.SDC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:21 pm
From that point of view, citta is always there in some form, and it is wrong view - beset by identity - that keeps the sense base, contact, perception, feeling etc., together (as far as MN 18 is concerned).
So instead of taking the description as sequential - that attempted rehash of events - there is a whole mass, arranged according to what necessitates the presence its different layers, i.e. dependent origination. So none are the cause of the “cascade”, they are the cascade.
Perhaps we could say that the idea of the 'citta' here is that which is in the background, and when afflicted with Wrong View, drives the whole process of craving, ignorance, etc. And it is the citta that can be liberated from this whole process.
I should look through Madhupiṇḍika to see if the word citta is there.
Thanks for an interesting discussion.
Mike