Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

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thomaslaw
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by thomaslaw »

Dear All,

A recent article about Maha-Moggalana is published by Mun-keat Choong in Buddhist Studies Review:

"A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)"
https://journals.equinoxpub.com/index.p ... ue/current

Thomas
Caodemarte
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Caodemarte »

Stiphan wrote:
thomaslaw wrote:
Stiphan wrote:Mahamoggallana was, in fact, a black man.
It seems to me, most of the Indians, including the so-called Aryans, are black or brown! Possible He was a real original black!

Thomas
He was African type of black, yes.

I don't know about Mahamoggallana, but there was pre-European sea trade between Africa, India, and China (notably Mozambique on the African mainland). There also villages in India where people are essentially Hindu, but look like African blacks. It was thought for some time that they were solely the descendants of runaway Portuguese slaves, but they may have predated the Portuguese. There is also the unexplained presence of "black Buddha" statues in at least one temple in Thailand which is suggestive. It is always fascinating to see how the ancient world was wider than we thought.
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LG2V
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by LG2V »

I'm curious about this as well.

I assume that Mahamoggallana was a Black Man. The color used to describe him, "Nila", can be used to describe Black, Blue, Brown, or other colors in between. The Bhikkhuni Uppalavanna was describes as being "Nila" as well.

I think that's the case for the "Nila Kasina" of the four kasina types, too. Black, Brown, and Blue are interchangeable.

There does seem to have been an association of Blackness with beauty during The Buddha's time. For instance, Uppalavanna was described as being extremely beautiful, and one of the Brahma realms is named the realm of the "Beautiful Black Gods" {Subhakinha devas). Of course, there is the sutta that says White kamma is good and Black kamma is bad, but it also says that the performers of white kamma go on to be Beautiful Black Gods. An interesting take.

There were also the Kanhayanas, who were a prestigious Brahmin clan during The Buddha's time. But they were descended from Kanha (who I believe is the same Kanha from the Mahabharata, or possibly Krishna). Buddha said that Kanha was born a slave and mocked for his dark color (hence, the name "Kanha") during his birth time many ages (exactly how long?) ago, but that he became a great seer/sage. It's interesting to speculate about the demographics during that time.

I am curious, though. Were Buddha's eyes actually blue? They are described with the same word (Nila), so they well could have been brown. His hair is described as "Nila", and it is generally assumed to be black.
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live.thanuka
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by live.thanuka »

Do you know why he was blue? because his nervous system was damaged when he went to find the endless world by using his magical powers without getting any permission from Load Buddha, afterwards, Load Buddha has got a notification signal that Moggallana was not in this world, he was traveling to find the end and birth of the world, Load Buddha has seen from his mind, and do you know what Load Buddha did afterward?, Load Buddha has unlimited power, using that power he pulls Moggallana down to earth within few nanoseconds, and Moggallana try to understand what happened, and he realized Load Buddha has unlimited power, and his power was second to Load Buddha, and he has apologized to Load Buddha because he did not say anything before he was going. Due to that reason, his nervous system becomes blue and it shows outside of the body, and he knows that if he finds the end, he will gradually die due to traveling on an endless journey. However, after apologizing he becomes stable, but the color is not changed. There is another reason for blue, that one is a deep realization of Load Buddha’s theories and reasons why this was happening to Moggallana, and not to other disciples of Load Buddha. If you want to learn that, you may follow Load Buddha’s teachings. (Source: Tripitaka from Sri Lanka), You can take it from the Internet as well, I am not quite sure about English translation, but I referred to the “Sinhala” Translation of the Original Tripitaka. That is it.
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Alino »

Intrestig supposition about Black Mahamoggallana!
But not impossible as original population of SE Asia is of African type.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by confusedlayman »

In india color dont matter at all... i can imagine buddha and sariputta and all buddha cousin having white skin due to royal family and sariputta being opposite to moggalana in color.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Ontheway
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Ontheway »

ADS_7031 (1).JPG
Blue colour skin monk figurine

I saw this picture....this lying figure was having blue colour skin...

May I know what the plate at the side said? It was written in Sinhalese language...

Any kind Sinhalese person here can help translate? May I know what is it?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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live.thanuka
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by live.thanuka »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:06 pm ADS_7031 (1).JPGBlue colour skin monk figurine

I saw this picture....this lying figure was having blue colour skin...

May I know what the plate at the side said? It was written in Sinhalese language...

Any kind Sinhalese person here can help translate? May I know what is it?

The picture I know what that is, but you want the text, I can read some of the texts in the picture, but it is not quite clear in the picture, if you can give me a clear picture of the text, I will give you what it is says. I am Sinhalese, so I can read Sinhala
Ontheway
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Ontheway »

live.thanuka wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:16 am
Ontheway wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:06 pm ADS_7031 (1).JPGBlue colour skin monk figurine

I saw this picture....this lying figure was having blue colour skin...

May I know what the plate at the side said? It was written in Sinhalese language...

Any kind Sinhalese person here can help translate? May I know what is it?

The picture I know what that is, but you want the text, I can read some of the texts in the picture, but it is not quite clear in the picture, if you can give me a clear picture of the text, I will give you what it is says. I am Sinhalese, so I can read Sinhala
Thanks. But I don't have the high resolution picture as I saw it on internet random post.

But it is okay, I think the statue is Bhante Maha Moggallana Thera.

:namaste:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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live.thanuka
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by live.thanuka »

Yes, he is; for my understanding, the image shows how he died, he took his soul out when it is being happened (Theravada Thiripitaka:Maha Moggallana Sutta), but you can see, cuts on his body in the image. However, when the people thought Moggallana died, they were leaving, Maha Moggallana saw this and he landed his sole on the dead body using his magical powers, and tried to walk to see Load buddha to get a permit to leave this life. (That is the story behind referring to Maha Moggallana Sutta)
Ontheway
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Ontheway »

live.thanuka wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:28 am Yes, he is; for my understanding, the image shows how he died, he took his soul out when it is being happened (Theravada Thiripitaka:Maha Moggallana Sutta), but you can see, cuts on his body in the image. However, when the people thought Moggallana died, they were leaving, Maha Moggallana saw this and he landed his sole on the dead body using his magical powers, and tried to walk to see Load buddha to get a permit to leave this life. (That is the story behind referring to Maha Moggallana Sutta)
Who taught you this story?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
live.thanuka
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by live.thanuka »

it is common knowledge when I was a kid, I heard this story when my mother and father say when I was going to sleep, not only that it is a reference to Therevada Tripitaka, and one of the Monk I have heard said this story in Sinhalese.
I have found one Article for your reference in English, but not in detail:
1. [html]https://mahamevnawanj.org/wp-content/up ... llana-.pdf[/html]

Secondly, the story was said by another monk, it was common knowledge, everybody who is Buddhist knows this story in Sri Lanka, however, I will give you the link where the monk said it in Sinhala Language: [html] [/html]

There is a book written in Sinhala Language, which says the same story written by Gayan Chanuka, For your reference : [html]https://yaaya.com.au/products/detail/mu ... තන්-වහන්සේ[/html]

If you can read, or if somebody knows Sinhala Language, you can ask them to translate and read the full story.

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Mettha and Namo Buddha.
pudai
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by pudai »

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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Gwi II »

The Encyclopedia Tipiṭaka says Venerable Mahāmoggallāno
Thero had "cloud blue (pale)" skin coz he often burned in hell.
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Ontheway
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Re: Why was Mahāmoggallāna blue?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi II wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:26 am The Encyclopedia Tipiṭaka says Venerable Mahāmoggallāno
Thero had "cloud blue (pale)" skin coz he often burned in hell.
Oral tradition in Ceylon.
Unless the Pali canon stated so, I think it is best just take it with a grain of salt.
Moggallāna's body was of the colour of the blue lotus or the rain cloud (Bu.i.58). There exists in Ceylon an oral tradition that this colour is due to his having suffered in hell in the recent past!
https://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_ ... ent%20past!
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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