Bojjhangaparitta and healing

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simsapa
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Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by simsapa »

Bojjhanga Sutta

samsare samsarantanatam, sabbadukkhavinasane;
satta dhamme ca bojjhange, marasenapamaddane.
My understanding is that this "sutta" was compiled by Burmese monks a long time ago from material in the Bojjhanga-samyutta of the SN.

Have people found that these sort of things actually have healing power?

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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by Dhammanando »

simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:14 am Have people found that these sort of things actually have healing power?
Yes
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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simsapa
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by simsapa »

That is truly wonderful. I wasn't aware of Angulimala's saccakiriyā (this category is mentioned in the thread).

Since we're on this kind of topic, do you happen to know of anything that could be chanted to bring warmth to people who are out in the cold? I'm thinking of the homeless.
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by skandha »

simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:18 am That is truly wonderful. I wasn't aware of Angulimala's saccakiriyā (this category is mentioned in the thread).

Since we're on this kind of topic, do you happen to know of anything that could be chanted to bring warmth to people who are out in the cold? I'm thinking of the homeless.
I have chanted the Angulimala's saccakiriyā on both occasions when my children were born and they were both very easy and quick births. I would like to think that the Angulimala's saccakiriyā had an effect in addition to the confidence in the effort of training in the non killing precept.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by Dhammanando »

simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:18 amSince we're on this kind of topic, do you happen to know of anything that could be chanted to bring warmth to people who are out in the cold? I'm thinking of the homeless.
I'm afraid I don't know of any that are specifically for that purpose. Probably better to give them warm clothes, food, first aid materials and cash. I suspect that some random Buddhist chanting parittas at them would be as annoying as those officious Xian evangelists who make a practice of sitting down and praying with them.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
simsapa
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by simsapa »

Don't worry: I'm a pragmatist if nothing else. I was just wondering.
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by simsapa »

Bojjhanga Sutta

samsare samsarantanatam, sabbadukkhavinasane;
satta dhamme ca bojjhange, marasenapamaddane.
So is there a history somewhere of how this "sutta" was compiled from its sources in the SN? Who compiled it exactly?
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frank k
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by frank k »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:31 am
simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:14 am Have people found that these sort of things actually have healing power?
Yes
Ven. D.,
I don't doubt that the details of the story happened in your first hand account, but I seriously doubt it had anything with the inherent power of the bojjhanga paritta itself,

but was actually a result of the combination of:
1) supernormal powers of the healer monk
2) healing powers of helpful devas doing the actual healing.
3) strong good karma of the healer monk, which would attract helpful devas

If bojjhanga paritta, angulimala paritta, or any paritta has the superstitious powers they claim, then many people should be able to demonstrate with witnesses its efficacy, not just a few rare instances like the incident you witnessed.

I suspect the monk could have chanted anything, even sang the alphabet song and gotten the same healing result.

IMO,
Rather than waste any time believing in parittas and figuring out which one is good for what type of situation, really we should be focused on developing samadhi and being a good person. The better you are at that, the larger base of friends, helpful devas, and more influential and powerful devas that you'll attract in proportion to your samadhi and sila.
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by Dhammanando »

frank k wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:19 pmVen. D.,
I don't doubt that the details of the story happened in your first hand account, but I seriously doubt it had anything with the inherent power of the bojjhanga paritta itself,

but was actually a result of the combination of:
1) supernormal powers of the healer monk
2) healing powers of helpful devas doing the actual healing.
3) strong good karma of the healer monk, which would attract helpful devas

If bojjhanga paritta, angulimala paritta, or any paritta has the superstitious powers they claim, then many people should be able to demonstrate with witnesses its efficacy, not just a few rare instances like the incident you witnessed.
Personally I'm quite openminded and undoctrinaire about the causes of parittas' efficacy.

Still, with regard to the part I've bolded, the hypothesis of there being some inherent power in the words (or the sounds or the meaning) of the parittas themselves wouldn't actually be falsified by the fact that paritta-chanting is sometimes efficacious and sometimes not. The inconsistent results could be accounted for by the hypothesis that you yourself have proposed, namely, that the efficacy of parittas is a synergetic phenomenon. If you're right about that, then it can't be ruled out a priori that an inherent power in the paritta's words is one component in that synergy, but that it will not be efficacious in the absence of the other component(s).

Alternatively, it could by accounted for Milindapañha-style: parittas are inherently powerful and when they fail it's because their power is blocked by obstructive kamma in the paritta's intended beneficiary.
frank k wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:19 pmI suspect the monk could have chanted anything, even sang the alphabet song and gotten the same healing result.
Well, maybe, though I would note that this is not what the monk himself believes, for he's committed to the Milindapañha's view and modestly disclaims that his paritta healing feats might have anything to do with the fact that it's he who is doing the chanting. Which leads me to wonder if there might not be a plausible intermediate position here, i.e., that a paritta's efficacy is not dependent on any inherent power in its words, but might be dependent on the chanter believing that there is such a power.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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frank k
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by frank k »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:34 am ...
I'm all for open mindedness and maintaining a rational amount of uncertainty, but it seems to me bojjhanga parittas and most (if not all) of the parittas fall under superstition rather than Dhamma that would meet the criteria of AN 4.180 four great references.
http://lucid24.org/an/an04/an04-v18/index.html#s180

That the modern sutta collection contains suttas such as SN 46 bojjhanga's SN 46.14-16, does not meet AN 4.180 standard, the same way we can't take what the Bible says is God's word because God said it was in the Bible.

Instead, it should lead us to conclude that these 3 suttas are not the words of the Buddha:
SN 46.14 Gilāna 1 : sick: probably a corrupt sutta. It's not in accordance with the Dharma to chant 7 magic words and expect miraculous healing powers to occur.
SN 46.15 Gilāna 2 : sick: probably a corrupt sutta. It's not in accordance with the Dharma to chant 7 magic words and expect miraculous healing powers to occur.
SN 46.16 Gilāna 3 : sick: probably a corrupt sutta. It's not in accordance with the Dharma to chant 7 magic words and expect miraculous healing powers to occur.

If the Buddha did indeed teach such supertitious parittas with inherent magical healing powers, then why did he ever need to use medicine to deal with illness, or use animitta samadhi to suppress body pain from Devadatta injuring his foot, or any of the great Arahants doing similar things? Why need medicine at all or like Anuruddha teaches in Anuruddha samyutta, use 4sp satipatthana to bear great phyical pain from serious illness, when they can just chant 7 magical words that magically heal illnessness and pain?

How would Milinda explain this?
Did Buddha and Arahants have karmic merit just on certain occasions to use the parittas (as in SN 46), and then suddenly lose merit and not be able to use the paritta on other far more numerous occasions when they could have benefitted from it as well?

It just doesn't make any sense. We have to reject this whole paritta thing as superstition.

The actual miraculous healings people experienced throughout time, most of the time devas (guardian angels) are doing the heavy lifting. Otherwise, how can we explain medically miraculous events occurring with other religions, and even with atheists with no religious intermediary healer?

The common denominator we find in the vast majority of the cases with miraculous healing, with subjects of different religions and atheists, is that they are
1) great people with lots of positive karma accumulated over many lifetimes, and attract of circle of friends that include devas and guardian angels in abundance.

2) or people with very mixed or even net bad karma, but have some karmic debt to collect from a guardian angel who heals, and after their miraculous healing they start doing lots of great positive karmic actions to show appreciation and pay it forward. The devas foresaw that this would happen, and thus lent a hand in transforming their character.
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by Dhammanando »

frank k wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:14 pm Instead, it should lead us to conclude that these 3 suttas are not the words of the Buddha:
SN 46.14 Gilāna 1 : sick: probably a corrupt sutta. It's not in accordance with the Dharma to chant 7 magic words and expect miraculous healing powers to occur.
In these particular cases the commentary doesn't attribute the effect to paritta-like magic, but rather to the psychosomatic effect of the recollection that the words engender in the listeners:
As the elder listened closely to this teaching on the development of the enlightenment factors, it is said, the thought occurred to him: “When I penetrated the truths on the seventh day of my going forth, these enlightenment factors became manifest”. Thinking, “The Master’s teaching is indeed emancipating!” his blood became clear, his bodily humours were purified, and the disease departed from his body like a drop of water fallen on a lotus leaf.
frank k wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:14 pmIf the Buddha did indeed teach such supertitious parittas with inherent magical healing powers, then why did he ever need to use medicine to deal with illness,
If I happen to have a headache, there is more than one effective remedy available to me. I can choose between taking a Paracetamol, drinking ginger tea, munching feverfew, doing some deep breathing exercises, getting a Thai monk to give me a head and shoulders massage, etc., etc.
frank k wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:14 pmThe common denominator we find in the vast majority of the cases with miraculous healing, with subjects of different religions and atheists, is that they are
1) great people with lots of positive karma accumulated over many lifetimes, and attract of circle of friends that include devas and guardian angels in abundance.

2) or people with very mixed or even net bad karma, but have some karmic debt to collect from a guardian angel who heals, and after their miraculous healing they start doing lots of great positive karmic actions to show appreciation and pay it forward. The devas foresaw that this would happen, and thus lent a hand in transforming their character.
"We find..." ?

Who has found these things?
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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frank k
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by frank k »

Ven. D., please share your knowledge on the pali here, what interpretations are possible?
Dhammanando wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:40 pm ...
(B Bodhi tranlsation)
This is what the Blessed One said.
Elated, the Venerable Mahākassapa delighted in the Blessed One’s statement.
And the Venerable Mahākassapa recovered from that illness.71
In such a way the Venerable Mahākassapa was cured of his illness.

idamavoca bhagavā.
attamano āyasmā mahākassapo bhagavato bhāsitaṃ abhinandi.
vuṭṭhahi cāyasmā mahākassapo tamhā ābādhā.
tathā-pahīno cāyasmato mahākassapassa so ābādho ahosīti. catutthaṃ.


From the pali, the elation and delight is a standard joy used in the suttas at the end when the listeners rejoice at the Buddha's dhamma talk, so there's no reason here to think it's a psycho somatic joy that can cure grave illness here.
Mahakassapa (Vutthahi) emerged from the affliction/illness.
In such a way (tatha) the affliction/illness was abandoned (pahino).

So the pali question here for the experts, what is the cause attributed from which mahakassapa emerged and removed the illness?

It may be the sutta itself doesn't actually say that reciting 7 magical mantra words, or delighting in reviewing the efficacy of practicing 7sb development, is the cause of the recovery from illness.

Reading those 3 suttas again carefully, maybe all it's saying is when one is gravely ill, a suitable activity to do is reflect on the practice of developing 7 awkaening factors and the benefits it brings. In other words, I don't see that the sutta is necessarily suggesting that one will be cured of illness becuase of doing that. At least that's what a strict lawyer style reading of B. Bodhi's English translation says to me. It's not promising recovery from illness, it's just implying it. What does the pali say?
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by salayatananirodha »

can i chant a paritta for my mom who has painful, sometimes debilitating diabetic neuropathy, and does she have to be in the room for it to work

and can i just listen to the parittas or do i have to chant them myself
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by Gwi »

simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:14 am
Bojjhanga Sutta

samsare samsarantanatam, sabbadukkhavinasane;
satta dhamme ca bojjhange, marasenapamaddane.
My understanding is that this "sutta" was compiled by Burmese monks a long time ago from material in the Bojjhanga-samyutta of the SN.

Have people found that these sort of things actually have healing power?

Split from the "Prayers for Sattva" thread. – Dhammanando


When it works, your brain feels
like it's being massaged or getting warm.
I once read the Parittā when
I had a headache and felt that way :clap:
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Re: Bojjhangaparitta and healing

Post by simsapa »

I once read the Parittā when
I had a headache and felt that way :clap:
Great to hear, which one?
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