DooDoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:42 amWhat is interesting about the Patisambhidamagga paragraphs above is:Purimakammabhavasmiṁ moho avijjā, āyūhanā saṅkhārā, nikanti taṇhā, upagamanaṁ upādānaṁ, cetanā bhavo. Ime pañca dhammā purimakammabhavasmiṁ idha paṭisandhiyā paccayā.
Idha paṭisandhi viññāṇaṁ, okkanti nāmarūpaṁ, pasādo āyatanaṁ, phuṭṭho phasso, vedayitaṁ vedanā. Ime pañca dhammā idhupapattibhavasmiṁ purekatassa kammassa paccayā.
Idha paripakkattā āyatanānaṁ moho avijjā, āyūhanā saṅkhārā, nikanti taṇhā upagamanaṁ upādānaṁ, cetanā bhavo. Ime pañca dhammā idha kammabhavasmiṁ āyatiṁ paṭisandhiyā paccayā.
Āyatiṁ paṭisandhi viññāṇaṁ, okkanti nāmarūpaṁ, pasādo āyatanaṁ, phuṭṭho phasso, vedayitaṁ vedanā. Ime pañca dhammā āyatiṁ upapattibhavasmiṁ idha katassa kammassa paccayā. Itime catusaṅkhepe tayo addhe tisandhiṁ vīsatiyā ākārehi paṭiccasamuppādaṁ jānāti passati aññāti paṭivijjhati. Taṁ ñātaṭṭhena ñāṇaṁ, pajānanaṭṭhena paññā. Tena vuccati— “paccayapariggahe paññā dhammaṭṭhitiñāṇaṁ”.
Patisambhidamagga
1. The Patisambhidamagga was placed into the Suttas; into the KN.
2. Then it appears the Patisambhidamagga concepts above (such as kammabhava, upapattibhava and patisandhi) are then found in the Abhidhamma (Vibhanga & Patthana), where the Abhidhamma Vibhanga claims at least two of these concepts are from the Suttas (even though the concepts appear not spoken by the Buddha because they appear to only exist in the Patisambhidamagga).
3. Then these same concepts (such as kammabhava, upapattibhava and patisandhi) appear in the Visuddhimagga.
4. Then you call your doctrinal sect that uses these new concepts: "Theravada: Doctrine of the Elders".
Wow - really neat way of concocting new doctrines; but it appears this is 'Theravada'. The Abhidhamma says about "bhava" in Dependent Origination in the Suttas:Compare the above to the real Suttas, which simply say:Abidhamma wrote:Tattha katamo upādānapaccayā bhavo? Bhavo duvidhena— atthi kammabhavo, atthi upapattibhavo.
Tattha katamo kammabhavo? Puññābhisaṅkhāro, apuññābhisaṅkhāro, āneñjābhisaṅkhāro— ayaṁ vuccati “kammabhavo”. Sabbampi bhavagāmikammaṁ kammabhavo.
Tattha katamo upapattibhavo? Kāmabhavo, rūpabhavo, arūpabhavo, saññābhavo, asaññābhavo, nevasaññānāsaññābhavo, ekavokārabhavo, catuvokārabhavo, pañcavokārabhavo— ayaṁ vuccati “upapattibhavo”.
Ayaṁ vuccati “upādānapaccayā bhavo”.
https://suttacentral.net/vb6/pli/ms
Therein what is “because of attachment becoming arises”? Becoming by way of twofold division: Is action-becoming; is resultant-becoming.
Therein what is action-becoming? Activity producing good (resultant), activity producing bad (resultant), activity producing unshakeable (resultant). This is called action-becoming. Also all action leading to becoming is action-becoming.
Therein what is resultant-becoming? Becoming (in the plane of) desire, becoming (in the plane of) form, becoming (in the) formless (plane), perception-becoming, non-perception-becoming, neither perception nor non-perception-becoming, single aggregate becoming, four aggregate becoming, five aggregate becoming. This is called resultant-becoming.
This is called “because of attachment becoming arises”.
https://suttacentral.net/vb6/en/thittilaSuttas wrote:And what is becoming?
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, bhavo?
There are these three types of becoming.
Tayome, bhikkhave, bhavā—
Sensual becoming, form becoming and realm becoming.
kāmabhavo, rūpabhavo, arūpabhavo.
This is called becoming.
Ayaṁ vuccati, bhikkhave, bhavo.
SN 12.2
Can u explain more that 3:
Sensual becoming, rūpå becoming,
and arūpå becoming?
If u using Abhidhammå u can.
KN is Suttås collection.
Theravādå = original/old buddhisme