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Jhana Formula in Agamas?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:57 pm
by pyluyten
Hello,

Jhanas standard formula ( pita, sukkha, ...) is a subject of debates, including into this forum obviously. One of the issues is translation of pali terms. A lesser issue is variants on the formula.

Hence i'm wondering, what is the equivalent of Jhana formula onto Chinese Agama? This may help?

Re: Jhana Formula in Agamas?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:28 pm
by frank k
the STED 4j formula (standard EBT def. of 4 jhanas)
occurs in agamas just like it does in pali.

I translated the EA 12.1 version here,
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/8aam8/index.html


Also on that page is Ven. Analayo's MA translation of the pericope. (english only, you'll have to look up the chinese)

Re: Jhana Formula in Agamas?

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:07 am
by pyluyten
frank k wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:28 pm the STED 4j formula (standard EBT def. of 4 jhanas)
occurs in agamas just like it does in pali.

I translated the EA 12.1 version here,
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/8aam8/index.html


Also on that page is Ven. Analayo's MA translation of the pericope. (english only, you'll have to look up the chinese)
WOW! a HUGE thanks frank! generally Internet forum formula is "i owe you a beer". Not very appropriate here. Let's say "a green tea". So it looks like i was looking for

有覺、有觀,Yǒu jué, yǒu guān, "with coarse-thinking (and) with subtle-thinking, "
I know "覺" because it is a common one in moderne chinese, "xué", generally "study". Also the second is generally "look / observe / contemplate". But i guess in classical Chinese this was a bit different, and even more in Agamas context.

Now i need to read your whole page :twothumbsup:

Re: Jhana Formula in Agamas?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:43 am
by pyluyten
frank k wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:28 pm the STED 4j formula (standard EBT def. of 4 jhanas)
occurs in agamas just like it does in pali.

I translated the EA 12.1 version here,
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/8aam8/index.html


Also on that page is Ven. Analayo's MA translation of the pericope. (english only, you'll have to look up the chinese)
if someone looks here one day, there is also both the original and translation on Sutta Central
Chinese : https://suttacentral.net/ea12.1/lzh/taisho
English translation by Thích Nhất Hạnh https://suttacentral.net/ea12.1/en/nhat_hanh-laity


here vitakka / vicara are "applied thought and sustained thought"