Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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DooDoot
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Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

Dear forum

I imagine use of certain distinct words might be a way to guess the dating of suttas.

Yesterday, while investigating words for "soul" in Hinduism, I read a quote from the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, which says:
vāsānsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛihṇāti naro ’parāṇi tathā śharīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇānya nyāni sanyāti navāni dehī

As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one.

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/2/verse/22
The word "dehī" appears to mean:
dehī
masculine
that which has a body; a creature.

https://suttacentral.net/define/deh%C4%AB
Then today, while viewing a video on the crucifixion of Matty Weingast, I noticed the term "dehaṃ" in the following sutta:
She bears her final body,
Dhāreti antimaṃ dehaṃ,

https://suttacentral.net/thig4.1/en/sujato
The word "deha" appears to mean:
deha
masculine & neuter
a body.

https://suttacentral.net/define/deha
So having a quick search of Sutta Central, it appears the word "dehaṃ" is found around 80 times in the Therāpadāna & Therīapadāna (antimaṃ dehaṃ); around 20 times in the Theragāthā & Therīgāthā (antimaṃ dehaṃ); once in the Ud 5.2 (pahāya dehaṃ); twice in Itivuttaka 52 & 57 (twice antimaṃ dehaṃ); 7 times in the SN; and once each in the MN (jahanti dehaṃ), AN (antimaṃ dehaṃ) & DN (mānusaṃ dehaṃ).

In the SN, it is used 4 times to refer to the mānusaṃ dehaṃ and 3 times to refer to the antimaṃ dehaṃ SN 21.4, 5 & 12. The mānusaṃ dehaṃ is found in the following stock passage in conversions with devas:
“Who are those who’ve crossed the bog,
“Ke ca te ataruṃ paṅkaṃ,

Death’s domain so hard to pass?
maccudheyyaṃ suduttaraṃ;

Who, after leaving behind the human body,
Ke hitvā mānusaṃ dehaṃ,

have risen above celestial yokes?”
dibbayogaṃ upaccagun”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn1.50/en/sujato#2.1
Similarly, the DN says:
Then another deity recited this verse in the Buddha’s presence:

Atha kho aparā devatā
bhagavato santike imaṃ gāthaṃ abhāsi:

“Anyone who has gone to the Buddha for refuge
“Ye keci buddhaṃ saraṇaṃ gatāse,

won’t go to a plane of loss.
Na te gamissanti apāyabhūmiṃ;

After giving up this human body,
Pahāya mānusaṃ dehaṃ,

they swell the hosts of gods.”
Devakāyaṃ paripūressantī”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/dn20/en/sujato
The Udana has:
“It is just so, Ānanda, the mothers of Awakening-Ones are indeed short-lived, seven days after the Awakening-Ones are born, the mothers of Awakening-Ones die, and arise among the Tusita hosts.”

Then the Gracious One, having understood the significance of it, on that occasion uttered this exalted utterance:

“Whatsoever beings there are, or [ever] will be,
They will all go on after giving up the body.

“The one who is skilful, having understood all that deprivation,
Should live the spiritual life ardently.”

https://suttacentral.net/ud5.2/en/anandajoti
The MN has:
Not just the king, but others too,
Rājā ca aññe ca bahū manussā,

reach death not rid of craving.
Avītataṇhā maraṇaṃ upenti;

They leave the body still wanting,
Ūnāva hutvāna jahanti dehaṃ,

for in this world sensual pleasures never satisfy.
Kāmehi lokamhi na hatthi titti.

Relatives lament, their hair disheveled,
Kandanti naṃ ñātī pakiriya kese,

saying ‘Ah! Alas! They’re not immortal!’
Ahovatā no amarāti cāhu;

https://suttacentral.net/mn82/en/sujato#42.11
In summary, it is interesting how the word "dehaṃ" is predominately in certain genres of suttas, namely, the Theragāthā & Therīgāthā and their later legends (Apadāna); or otherwise in discussions with devas; or otherwise used merely once, such as in the MN.
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

Then there is what appears a cultural word sarīra for "body" found in Ud 8.10, Ud 8.9, SN 12.35, SN 12.36, SN 24.13, SN 24.14, SN 24.18, SN 33.1, SN 33.55, AN 4.38, AN 5.50, AN 10.96, Snp 3.8, Dhp 129–145, etc, in many other suttas.

I wonder what the differences in these words are? :shrug:
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

deha mn. ( dih-,to plaster, mould, fashion) the body etc. View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

deha m. (in a triad with manas-and vāc-) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

deha m. (haṃdhāraya-,to support the body id est exist ) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

deha m. form, shape, mass, bulk (as of a cloud; in fine compositi or 'at the end of a compound' f(ā-).) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

deha m. person, individual View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

deha m. appearance, manifestation in fine compositi or 'at the end of a compound' having the appearance of (saṃdeha-- ) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

http://sanskritdictionary.com/?iencodin ... ion=Search
Root Word (Pāṇini Dhātupāṭha:) Full Root Marker Sense Class Sutra
√dih diha a upacaye 2 6
"dih" has 1 results.
Root Word IAST Meaning Monier Williams Page Class
√दिह् dih thriving / upacaya 197/3 Cl.2
dih cl.2 P. A1. degdhi-, digdhe- (subjunctive -d/ehat- ; perfect tense dideha-, didihe- ; future dhekṣyati-, degdhā- ; Aorist adhikṣat-, ta-,3. plural ṣur- ; adigdka- ) to anoint, smear, plaster etc. ; increase, accumulate : Causal dehayati-, te- etc. ; Aorist adīdihat-: Desiderative didhikṣati-, te- ; dhīkṣate- (), to wish to anoint one's self: Intensive dedihyate-, dedegdhi-. ([Fr. originally dhigh-; confer, compare, , ; Latin fingo,figulus,figura; Gothic deigan,gadigis; O.E.da1h; English dough; German Teig.]) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.
dih दिह् 2 U. (देग्धि, दिग्धे, दिग्ध; desid. दिधिक्षति) 1 To anoint, smear, plaster, spread over; स चन्दनोशीरमृणाल- दिग्धः BK.3.21, अदिहंश्चन्दनैः शुभैः 17.54. -2 To soil, defile, pollute; अस्रदिग्धं पदम् R.16.15. -3 To increase, augment.

dih दिह् f. 1 Anointing, smearing. -2 Pollution, soiling.
dih verb (class 2 ātmanepada) to accumulate (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988))
to anoint (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988))
to increase (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988))
to plaster (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988))
to smear (Monier-Williams, Sir M. (1988))
upacaya See upa-- 1. ci-. View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

upacaya m. accumulation, quantity, heap View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

upacaya m. elevation, excess View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

upacaya m. increase, growth, prosperity etc.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

śarīra n. (once in m.; in fine compositi or 'at the end of a compound' f(ā-).;either fr. śri-and originally ="support or supporter"see 2. śaraṇa-and ;or according to to others, fr. śṝ-,and originally = "that which is easily destroyed or dissolved") the body, bodily frame, solid parts of the body (plural the bones) etc. View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

śarīra n. any solid body (opp. to udaka-etc.) View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

śarīra n. one's body id est one's own person View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

śarīra n. bodily strength View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

śarīra n. a dead body View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.
śarīra ‘Body,’ is a word of frequent occurrence in Vedic literature. The interest of the Vedic Indians seems early to have been attracted to the consideration of questions connected with the anatomy of the body. Thus a hymn of the Atharva­veda enumerates many parts of the body with some approach to accuracy and orderly arrangement. It mentions the heels (pārsnf), the flesh (māmsa), the ankle-bones (gulphau), the fingers (angulīh), the apertures (kha), the two metatarsi (uchlakau), the tarsus (pratisthā), the two knee-caps (astliī- vantau), the two legs {janghe), the two knee-joints (jānunoh sandhī). Then comes above the two knees (jānū) the four­sided (catuçtaya), pliant (śithira) trunk (kabandha). The two hips (śronī) and the two thighs (ūrū) are the props of the frame (ktisindha). Next come the breast-bone (uras), the cervical cartilages (grīvāh), the two breast pieces (stanau), the two shoulder-blades (/kaphodau), the neck-bones (skandhau), and the backbones (prstīh), the collar-bones (amsau), the arms (bāhu), the seven apertures in the head (sapta khāni śīrsani), the ears (karnau), the nostrils (nāsike), the eyes (caksanī), the mouth (mukha), the jaws (hanū), the tongue (jihvā), the brain (mas- tiska), the forehead (lalāta), the facial bone (kakātikā), the cranium (kapāla), and the structure of the jaws (cityā hanvoh). This system presents marked similarities with the later system of Caraka and Suśruta,4 which render certain the names ascribed to the several terms by Hoernle. Kaphodau, which is variously read in the manuscripts,5 is rendered ‘ collar-bone ’ by Whitney, but ‘ elbow ’ in the St. Petersburg Dictionary. Skandha in the plural regularly denotes 'neck-bones,’ or, more precisely, ‘cervical vertebrae,’ a part denoted also by usnihā in the plural. Prsii denotes not * rib,’ which is parśu, but a transverse process of a vertebra, and so the vertebra itself, there being in the truncal portion of the spinal column seventeen vertebrae and thirty-four transverse processes. The vertebrae are also denoted by kīkasā in the plural, which sometimes is limited to the upper portion of the vertebral column, sometimes to the thoracic portion of the spine. Anūka also denotes the vertebral column, or more specially the lumbar or thoracic portion of the spine; it is said in the śatapatha Brāhmaṇa that there are twenty transverse processes in the lumbar spine (udara) and thirty-two in the thoracic, which gives twenty-six vertebrae, the true number (but the modern division is seven cervical, twelve thoracic, five lumbar, and two false—the sacrum and the coccyx). The vertebral column is also denoted by karūkara, which, however, is usually found in the plural denoting the transverse processes of the vertebrae, a sense expressed also by kuntāpa. Grīvā, in the plural, denotes cervical vertebrae, the number seven being given by the Satapatha Brāhmana, but usually the word simply means windpipe, or, more accurately, the cartilaginous rings under the skin. Jatru, also in the plural, denotes the cervical cartilages, or possibly the costal cartilages, which are certainly so called in the śatapatha Brāhmaṇa, where their number is given as eight. Bhamsas, which occurs thrice in the Atharvaveda, seems to denote the pubic bone or arch rather than the ‘buttocks’ or ‘fundament,’ as Whitney takes it. In the śatapatha Brāhmaṇa the number of bones in the the human body is given as 360. The number of the bones of the head and trunk are given in another passage as follows: The head is threefold, consisting of skin (tvac), bone (1asthi), brain (matiska); the neck has 15 bones : 14 transverse processes (karūkara) and the strength (vīrya)—i.e., the bone of the centre regarded as one—as the 15th ; the breast has 17: 16 cervical cartilages (Jatru), and the sternum (uras) as the 17th ; the abdominal portion of the spine has 21 : 20 transverse processes (kimtāpa), and the abdominal portion (udara) as the 21st; the two sides have 27: 26 ribs (parśu), and the two sides as the 27th; the thoracic portion of the spine (anūka) has 33: 32 transverse processes, and the thoracic portion as 33rd. There are several enumerations of the parts of the body, not merely of the skeleton, in the Yajurveda Samhitās. They include the hair (lomāni), skin (tvac), flesh (māinsá), bone (1asthi), marrow (majjan), liver (yakrt), lungs (kloman), kidneys (matasne), gall (pitta), entrails (āntrāni), bowels (gudāh), spleen (ptīhan), navel (nābht), belly (udara), rectum (vanisthu), womb (yoni), penis (plāśi and śepa), face (mukha), head (śiras), tongue (jihvā), mouth (āsan), rump (pāyu), leech (vāla), eye (caksus), eyelashes (paksmāni), eyebrows (utāni), nose (was), breath (iiyāna), nose-hairs (nasyāni), ears (karnau), brows (bhrū), body or trunk (ātman), waist (upastha), hair on the face (śmaśrūni), and on the head (keśāh). Another enumeration gives śiras, mukha, keśāh, śmaśrūni, prāna (breath), caksus, śrotra (ear), jihvā, vāc (speech), manas (mind), arigulik, añgāni (limbs), bāhū, hastau (hands), karnau, ātmā, uras (sternum), prstllj, (vertebrae), udara, amsau, grīvāh, śronī, ūrū, aratnī (elbows), jānūni, nūbhi, pāyu, bhasat (fundament), āndau (testicles), pasas (membrum virile), jañghā, pad (foot), lomāni, tvac, māmsa, asthi, majjan. Another set of names includes vanisthu, purītat (pericardium), lomāni, tvac, lohita (blood), medas (fat), māmsāni, snāvāni (sinews), asthīni, majjānah, ret as (semen), pāyu, kośya (flesh near the heart), pārśvya (intercostal flesh), etc. The bones of the skeleton of the horse are enumerated in the Yajurveda Samhitās. In the Aitareya Araṇyaka the human body is regarded as made up of one hundred and one items ; there are four parts, each of twenty-five members, with the trunk as one hundred and first. In the two upper parts there are five four-jointed fingers, two kakçasī (of uncertain meaning), the arm (dos), the collar-bone (akça), and the shoulder-blade (artisa-phalaka). In the two lower portions there are five four-jointed toes, the thigh, the leg, and three articulations, according to Sāyaṇa’s commentary. The śānkhāyana Araṇyaka enumerates three bones in the head, three joints (parvāni) in the neck, the collar-bone {akṣa), three joints in the fingers, and twenty-one transverse processes in the spine (anūka).sg The Maitrāyaṇī Samhitā enumerates four constituents in the head {prāna, caksns, śrotra, vāc), but there are many variations, the number going up to twelve on one calculation. In the Taittirīya Upaniṣad an enumeration is given consisting of carma (skin), māinsa, snāvan, asthi, and majjan; the Aitareya Brāhmaṇa has lomāni, mānμa, tvac, asthi, majjan, and the Aitareya Araṇyaka couples majjānah, snāvāni, and asthīni. Other terms relating to the body are kañkūsa, perhaps a part of the ear, yoni (female organ), kaksa (armpit), Danta (tooth), nakha (nail), prapada (forepart of the foot), hallks'tia (gall).
http://sanskritdictionary.com/?iencodin ... ion=Search
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ToVincent
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by ToVincent »

Śarīra is the perishable body (lit. (the body) that is going to break (shatter).

Deha is the carnal envelope — just the appearance — it does not include what animates the body (viz. the dehin - the "spirit", the "soul", or whatever).

Pretty much the same, if that the latter is used with the dehin in mind.
As in: "you leave the deha - but there is still something that is there (viz. what animated it).

That is the pre-Buddhist meaning in the Vedic literature.
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

ToVincent wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:03 pm Śarīra is the perishable body (lit. (the body) that is going to break (shatter).

Deha is the carnal envelope — just the appearance — it does not include what animates the body (viz. the dehin - the "spirit", the "soul", or whatever).

That is the pre-Buddhist meaning in the Vedic literature.
Thank you. :bow:
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by johnsmitty »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:54 am Dear forum

I imagine use of certain distinct words might be a way to guess the dating of suttas.

Yesterday, while investigating words for "soul" in Hinduism, I read a quote from the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, which says:
vāsānsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛihṇāti naro ’parāṇi tathā śharīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇānya nyāni sanyāti navāni dehī

As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one.

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/2/verse/22
I question the correctitude of the interlinear on that site. I think "navāni dehī" = "new body" but I'm no sanskrit scholar. But I can feel my way through ancient languages enough to check translations a bit.

Seems to me that the word soul is not literally in the passage but rather is being supplied from context of understanding their doctrine.

The translation in Sacred Books of the East Volume 8 (not versified unfortunately) https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe08/sbe0804.htm says
As a man, casting off old clothes, puts on others and new ones, so the embodied (self) casting off old bodies, goes to others and new ones
So I think indeed the word soul is not literally here.
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by johnsmitty »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:54 am Then today, while viewing a video on the crucifixion of Matty Weingast, I noticed the term "dehaṃ" in the following sutta:
She bears her final body,
Dhāreti antimaṃ dehaṃ,

https://suttacentral.net/thig4.1/en/sujato
I'm gonna backtrack slightly on what I said in the last post. The interlinear you linked says "dehī—the embodied soul"...its quite possible they are correct, as in dehī means "incarnation." This very passage you cite here or similar in the suttas where our modern translators would say "he/she bears his/her last body" older translators in the 1800s would say "he/she bears his/her last incarnation." So maybe unlike sarira the word deha refers not merely to a body but to a body as an incarnation. As in the sanskrit passage of the gita you see śharīrāṇi is bodies but dehī is embodied (with something implied as being embodied).
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by DooDoot »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:54 am 7 times in the SN
This includes SN 25.1, which has:
His heart is upright,
ujubhūtena cetasā;

he’s unfettered, detached,
Vippayutto visaṁyutto,

extinguished by not grasping.
anupādāya nibbuto;

He bears his final body,
Dhāreti antimaṁ dehaṁ,

having vanquished Māra and his mount.”
jetvā māraṁ savāhinin”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn21.5/en/sujato#ms12S2_1275
The word "vippayutto" above appears found only once in the Suttas (above) but 106 times is later literature, particularly the Abhidhamma.
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Re: Suttas using the term "dehaṃ" ("body")

Post by Spiny Norman »

johnsmitty wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:07 am
DooDoot wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:54 am Dear forum

I imagine use of certain distinct words might be a way to guess the dating of suttas.

Yesterday, while investigating words for "soul" in Hinduism, I read a quote from the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, which says:
vāsānsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛihṇāti naro ’parāṇi tathā śharīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇānya nyāni sanyāti navāni dehī

As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one.

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/2/verse/22
I question the correctitude of the interlinear on that site. I think "navāni dehī" = "new body" but I'm no sanskrit scholar. But I can feel my way through ancient languages enough to check translations a bit.

Seems to me that the word soul is not literally in the passage but rather is being supplied from context of understanding their doctrine.

The translation in Sacred Books of the East Volume 8 (not versified unfortunately) https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe08/sbe0804.htm says
As a man, casting off old clothes, puts on others and new ones, so the embodied (self) casting off old bodies, goes to others and new ones
So I think indeed the word soul is not literally here.
My translation has "embodied one" here. I assume this is a reference to Atman.

Note that shortly before this in the 'Gita, Verse 20 of chapter 2 says:
"It is not born, nor is it ever mortal, and having been, will not pass from existence. Ancient unborn, eternally existing, it does not die when the body perishes."
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