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yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm
by auto
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.42/en/sujato wrote:And what is the noble cycle that they have clearly seen and comprehended with wisdom?
Katamo cassa ariyo ñāyo paññāya sudiṭṭho hoti suppaṭividdho?
A noble disciple carefully and properly attends to dependent origination itself …Idha, bhikkhave, ariyasāvako paṭiccasamuppādaññeva sādhukaṃ yoniso manasi karoti … pe …
This is the noble cycle that they have clearly seen and comprehended with wisdom.ayamassa ariyo ñāyo paññāya sudiṭṭho hoti suppaṭividdho.
What has been unsettling for me so far were the interpretations of ayoniso manasikara regards to the nimitta of beauty(subha), now i understand it is ayoniso when it gives rise to greed, the beauty itself isn't what is defining something to be yoniso or ayoniso.
I think the idea of dependent origination being yoniso is the cessation part, focusing on the nimittas what cause cessation, diminishing of greed.

Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?

To add,
https://suttacentral.net/mn43/en/sujato wrote:“How do you understand something that can be known?”“Neyyaṃ panāvuso, dhammaṃ kena pajānātī”ti?

“You understand something that can be known with the eye of wisdom.”“Neyyaṃ kho, āvuso, dhammaṃ paññācakkhunā pajānātī”ti.

“What is the purpose of wisdom?”“Paññā panāvuso, kimatthiyā”ti?

“The purpose of wisdom is direct knowledge, complete understanding, and giving up.”“Paññā kho, āvuso, abhiññatthā pariññatthā pahānatthā”ti.
it seem understanding of X purpose is direct knowledge,.., giving up.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm
by SteRo
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?
It is attending with non-delusion/wisdom (ignorance having ceased) to the formations which entails either cessation of only unwholesome formations or cessation of first unwholesome formations and then all formations and thus dependent cessation.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:35 pm
by auto
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?
It is attending with non-delusion/wisdom (ignorance having ceased) the formations which entails either cessation of only unwholesome formations or cessation of first unwholesome formations and then all formations and thus dependent cessation.
'With' is different kind of paradigm.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:49 pm
by Ceisiwr
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm
Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?
To look to the origin. This dhamma that has come to be, what was its condition?

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:59 pm
by SteRo
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:35 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?
It is attending with non-delusion/wisdom (ignorance having ceased) the formations which entails either cessation of only unwholesome formations or cessation of first unwholesome formations and then all formations and thus dependent cessation.
'With' is different kind of paradigm.
But "with non-delusion" actually is attending 'without delusion' or 'attending empty of delusion' being 'properly attending'. So 'properly' implies cessation, not the addition of something else.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:54 pm
by auto
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:49 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 pm
Or what it means properly attending to dependent origination in your opinion?
To look to the origin. This dhamma that has come to be, what was its condition?
yes, i need study more, specifically what is wisdom.
https://suttacentral.net/dn14/en/sujato wrote:Then Vipassī thought,Atha kho, bhikkhave, vipassissa bodhisattassa etadahosi:
‘When what exists is there consciousness? What is a condition for consciousness?’‘kimhi nu kho sati viññāṇaṃ hoti, kiṃpaccayā viññāṇan’ti?
Then, through proper attention, Vipassī comprehended with wisdom,Atha kho, bhikkhave, vipassissa bodhisattassa yoniso manasikārā ahu paññāya abhisamayo:
‘When name and form exist there’s consciousness. Name and form are a condition for consciousness.’‘nāmarūpe kho sati viññāṇaṃ hoti, nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇan’ti.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:04 pm
by auto
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:59 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:35 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm

It is attending with non-delusion/wisdom (ignorance having ceased) the formations which entails either cessation of only unwholesome formations or cessation of first unwholesome formations and then all formations and thus dependent cessation.
'With' is different kind of paradigm.
But "with non-delusion" actually is attending 'without delusion' or 'attending empty of delusion' being 'properly attending'. So 'properly' implies cessation, not the addition of something else.
i think it is too complicated for me.

Re: yoniso manasikārā on dependent origination

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:42 pm
by auto
https://suttacentral.net/an2.118-129/en/sujato wrote:“There are two conditions for the arising of right view.“Dveme, bhikkhave, paccayā sammādiṭṭhiyā uppādāya.What two?Katame dve?
The words of another and proper attention.Parato ca ghoso, yoniso ca manasikāro.
These are the two conditions for the arising of right view.”Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve paccayā sammādiṭṭhiyā uppādāyā”ti.
the words of another are the sights what are likeable ..
https://suttacentral.net/sn47.7/en/sujato wrote:And what is not a mendicant’s own territory but the domain of others?Ko ca, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno agocaro paravisayo?
Yadidaṃ—It’s the five kinds of sensual stimulation.pañca kāmaguṇā.What five?Katame pañca?
Sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṃhitā rajanīyā,
..
Proper attention is applied to the words of another, for to arise right view.