Kiṁdiṭṭhika sutta

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Ceisiwr
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Kiṁdiṭṭhika sutta

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AN 10.93 has always intrigued me. In the Pāli sutta Anāthapiṇḍika discusses views with some ascetics. Towards the end of the sutta he says:
“Sirs, anything that is created, conditioned, chosen, and dependently originated is impermanent. And what’s impermanent is suffering. And what’s suffering is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self. That’s my view, sirs.”

“Householder, anything that is created, conditioned, chosen, and dependently originated is impermanent. And what’s impermanent is suffering. What you cling to and hold to is just suffering.”

“Sirs, anything that is created, conditioned, chosen, and dependently originated is impermanent. And what’s impermanent is suffering. And I’ve truly seen clearly with right wisdom that what’s suffering is not mine, I am not this, it’s not my self. And I truly understand the escape beyond that.”
The sutta has some interesting parallels. Two from the Saṁyuktāgama and 1 as a Sanskrit fragment. I'm using DeepL to translate the Chinese:
Suda replied, "As I have seen, all beings are sentient beings, born from the harmony of causes. The word "cause and effect" means karma. If there is a false cause and effect, it is impermanence, and impermanence is suffering, and suffering is the absence of self. In this sense, I have no attachment to any of the views. You laymen say this: "All dharmas are permanent, but this is the only reality, all others are delusions. Those who hold such opinions are the root of all suffering, and those who hold on to such evil opinions correspond to suffering, and can endure great suffering, and suffer infinite suffering in birth and death, all because they think that there is something, and that the world is permanent, and that after death they are not born there or not born there. All these views are the result of the union of karma and cause and effect. In this way, we know impermanence, impermanence is suffering, and suffering is the absence of self.

Then a layman said to Suda, "Elder! If all sentient beings are created by the union of karma and karmic causes, they are all impermanent, impermanent is suffering, and suffering is no-self. If this is so, you are now also the cause of all suffering, and you will suffer infinite suffering in birth and death.

Suda replied, "I have said before that I have no attachment to all the views, and therefore I do not have such views now.
https://suttacentral.net/sa-2.202/lzh/taisho
The elders replied, "What I see is true, and is real, and is contemplated, and arises, and if it is true, and is real, and is contemplated, and arises, then it is impermanent, and impermanent is suffering. Knowing this, I have nothing to gain from all sight. If thou seest, 'This is true, and the rest is false. Therefore, you are close to suffering, you are only in suffering, you are firmly in suffering, and you are deeply in suffering. If thou sayest that the world is impermanent, this is true, but the rest is false. Such is the blame.

The world is constant, impermanent, very non-permanent, the world is bounded, the world is not bounded, the world is bounded and not bounded, the world is not bounded and not bounded, the life is the body, the life is different, the life is different from the body, there is after death, there is not after death, there is not after death, there is not after death, there is not after death.

A layman said to a lonely elder, "As thou hast said, if any man see him, then he who is real, and has being, and contemplates, and has origination, is impermanent, and if impermanent he is suffering. Therefore, what does the elder see is also a practice of approaching suffering, attaining it, dwelling in it, and penetrating into it?

The elder replied, "I did not say that what I see is real, real, thoughtful, and arising, and all are impermanent, and that the impermanent is suffering.
https://suttacentral.net/sa968/lzh/taisho

I'm having difficulty with the SF as it is in Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, which confuses me somewhat, but it looks to be the same to the Pāli from scanning the words I do know:
… evaṁvādī śāśvato loka idam eva satyaṁ moham anyat. evṁ doṣaṁ bhavati. pūrvavad yāvat, naiva bhavati naiva na bhavati tathāgataḥ paraṁ maraṇāt. idaṁ satyaṁ moham anyat* imā dṛṣṭir bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ yad bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ tad anityaṁ yad anityaṁ tad duḥkhaṁ. tasmād ayam āyuṣmāṁ duḥkham evālīnaḥ. duḥkham evādhyupagataḥ. duḥkham evādhiniviṣṭaḥ. duḥkham eva pratipannaḥ. … evaṁvādī naiva bhavati naiva na bhavati tathāgataḥ paraṁ maraṇāt. idaṁ satyaṁ moham anyat.

athānyataro ’nyatīrthikaparivrājako ’nāthapiṇḍadaṁ gṛhapatim idam avocat*. nanu gṛhapater api dṛṣṭir bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ yad bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ tad anityaṁ yad anityaṁ tad duḥkhaṁ. tasmād gṛhapatir api duḥkham evālīnaḥ duḥkham evādhyupagataḥ. duḥkham evādhiniviṣṭaḥ. duḥkham eva pratipannaḥ.

mama bhavanto dṛṣṭir bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ yad bhūtaṁ saṁskṛtaṁ cetayitaṁ pratītyasamutpannaṁ tad anityaṁ yad anityaṁ tad duḥkhaṁ. evaṁ viditvā tasmād aham imāṁ dṛṣṭiṁ sarveṇa sarvaṁ nābhyupagatam. evam eva gṛhapate.
https://suttacentral.net/sf80/san/hosoda

This of course all depends on translation, but the Pāli sutta (and possible the SF?) sees things in terms of non-identification and lust etc in regard to Right View, whilst the Northern texts seem to be about transcending even that view. Since this suttas has so many parallels, it likely goes back to the earliest time in Buddhist history and so it has important things to say regarding how early Buddhists understood views and how their position differed from the ascetic dogmatists.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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