Early schools

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
simsapa
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Early schools

Post by simsapa »

Where can I find high-quality information on the early schools of Buddhism, other than the antecedents of the modern Theravada? I'm interested in learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Early schools

Post by Dhammanando »

If you want the full monty, then there's Étienne Lamotte's 870-page History of Indian Buddhism.

If that's too long for you, then there are two fairly reliable but much shorter works, both largely derivative upon Lamotte's research:

Nalinaksha Dutt, Buddhist Sects in India

Hirakawa Akira, History of Indian Buddhism: from Sakyamuni to Early Mahayana
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simsapa
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Re: Early schools

Post by simsapa »

Thanks, Bhante. Lamotte's text looks a bit outdated. I might try to find a copy of Dutt's text.
sphairos
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Re: Early schools

Post by sphairos »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:29 am If you want the full monty, then there's Étienne Lamotte's 870-page History of Indian Buddhism.

If that's too long for you, then there are two fairly reliable but much shorter works, both largely derivative upon Lamotte's research:

Nalinaksha Dutt, Buddhist Sects in India

Hirakawa Akira, History of Indian Buddhism: from Sakyamuni to Early Mahayana
Bareau's "The sects of the lesser vehicle" is a better source for "early schools".

Warder's "Indian Buddhism" is also better than Lamotte in my opinion. Less "philological".
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Eko Care
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Re: Early schools

Post by Eko Care »

If we have read the account of Atthakatha on this regard beforehand, then it is easier to proceed with comparative studies.

Samantapasadika Vinaya Atthakatha- Nidana Katha (English translation) : Inception of Discipline and The Vinaya Nidana

And Kathavatthu supports learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Early schools

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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Assaji
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Re: Early schools

Post by Assaji »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:12 pm If we have read the account of Atthakatha on this regard beforehand, then it is easier to proceed with comparative studies.

Samantapasadika Vinaya Atthakatha- Nidana Katha (English translation) : Inception of Discipline and The Vinaya Nidana
Thank you! Here's another version, somewhat better formatted:

https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/books ... a_10448437

Some people may find more convenient to read:

https://archive.org/details/sacredbooks ... 9/mode/2up
48vows
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Re: Early schools

Post by 48vows »

simsapa wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:00 am I might try to find a copy of Dutt's text.
I read it once and really got alot out of it.
If your english is pretty good, it's actually kind of an easy read if you take your time.
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Eko Care
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Re: Early schools

Post by Eko Care »

What most important in distinguishing early schools is not their exact date of origin, but the difference between their view points, I think.
Learning clearly about how the Theravada sees other schools is more important before learning how other schools see Theravada, I think.

The Debates Commentary. Translation of the Kathāvatthu Commentary.
Translated for the first time by Bimala Churn Law, Ph.D., M.A., B.L. Pali Text Society's Translation Series. Oxford University Press, 1940.
The Debates Commentary.(PTS)
An important implication of the commentary to this controversy, though it is not clear from the Kathavatthu text itself, is that ...

According to the Kathavatthupakarana Atthakatha, the Andhakas, their sub-groups the Aparaseliyas and Pubbaseliyas, and the Uttarapathakas, as well as the Theravadins were involved in the controversies .. The Kathdvatthu Niyama Debates.pdf
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retrofuturist
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Re: Early schools

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Eko Care wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:16 pm Learning clearly about how the Theravada sees other schools is more important before learning how other schools see Theravada, I think.
That sounds rather lop-sided and sectarian.

It is always better for holders of a particular view to explain it as it appears to them, rather than have self-serving strawmen and misrepresentations foisted upon them by another who seeks only to discredit them. Alas, most early schools are not in a position to do that.

My readings suggest that by virtue of one school's chosen way of seeing, they distorted, misrepresented and misunderstood the other schools - intentionally or otherwise. All of which renders such comparative analysis of limited value unless one enjoys cheering on one's team as they tilt at windmills, shadowbox with imagined enemies, and predictably claim victory.

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Paul. :)
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Eko Care
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Re: Early schools

Post by Eko Care »

•483 BCE: Buddha dies ('attains parinibbana') at Kushinagar, India. Three months following his death, the First Buddhist council is convened at Rajagaha, India.
•383 BCE: The Second Buddhist council is convened by King Kalasoka and held at Vaisali.
•250 BCE: Third Buddhist council, convened by King Ashoka and chaired by Moggaliputta Tissa, compiles the Kathavatthu to refute the heretical views and theories held by some Buddhist sects. Ashoka issues a number of edicts (Edicts of Ashoka) about the kingdom in support of Buddhism.
Dhammawiki
383 B.C.E. • The Second Council convenes in Vesali to discuss controversial points of Vinaya. The first schism of the Sangha occurs, in which the Mahasanghika school parts ways with the traditionalist Sthaviravadins. At issue is the Mahasanghika's reluctance to accept the Suttas and the Vinaya as the final authority on the Buddha's teachings. This schism marks the first beginnings of what would later evolve into Mahayana Buddhism.
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Dhammavamsa
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Re: Early schools

Post by Dhammavamsa »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:50 am
•483 BCE: Buddha dies ('attains parinibbana') at Kushinagar, India. Three months following his death, the First Buddhist council is convened at Rajagaha, India.
•383 BCE: The Second Buddhist council is convened by King Kalasoka and held at Vaisali.
•250 BCE: Third Buddhist council, convened by King Ashoka and chaired by Moggaliputta Tissa, compiles the Kathavatthu to refute the heretical views and theories held by some Buddhist sects. Ashoka issues a number of edicts (Edicts of Ashoka) about the kingdom in support of Buddhism.
Dhammawiki
383 B.C.E. • The Second Council convenes in Vesali to discuss controversial points of Vinaya. The first schism of the Sangha occurs, in which the Mahasanghika school parts ways with the traditionalist Sthaviravadins. At issue is the Mahasanghika's reluctance to accept the Suttas and the Vinaya as the final authority on the Buddha's teachings. This schism marks the first beginnings of what would later evolve into Mahayana Buddhism.
Buddhanet
Do you have a link for Kathavathu translation?
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thomaslaw
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Re: Early schools

Post by thomaslaw »

simsapa wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:07 am Where can I find high-quality information on the early schools of Buddhism, other than the antecedents of the modern Theravada? I'm interested in learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
The following pages 2-7 (in p. 5 a figure on The First Five Centuries of Buddhism) by Choong Mun-keat may be useful:
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Pages 2-7 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000.pdf
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thomaslaw
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Re: Early schools

Post by thomaslaw »

thomaslaw wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:10 am
simsapa wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:07 am Where can I find high-quality information on the early schools of Buddhism, other than the antecedents of the modern Theravada? I'm interested in learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
The following pages 2-7 (in p. 5 a figure on The First Five Centuries of Buddhism) by Choong Mun-keat may be useful:
Also, regarding the date of the Buddha, he published the following paper in 2004, "A Discussion on the Determination of the Date of the Historical Buddha" in Journal of Indian History, pp. 1-6. https://www.academia.edu/39352049/Discu ... cal_Buddha

He concludes (p. 4): "There is no sure basis for choosing among these three". That is, the three possible dates for the Buddha's lifetime are: (1) c. 566-486, (2) c. 464-384, and (3) c. 508-428.
Ontheway
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Re: Early schools

Post by Ontheway »

Sharing some interesting videos (I think these were lectures in Indian university) about Early Buddhism schools that I found on YouTube:











Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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