Early schools
Early schools
Where can I find high-quality information on the early schools of Buddhism, other than the antecedents of the modern Theravada? I'm interested in learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
- Dhammanando
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Re: Early schools
If you want the full monty, then there's Étienne Lamotte's 870-page History of Indian Buddhism.
If that's too long for you, then there are two fairly reliable but much shorter works, both largely derivative upon Lamotte's research:
Nalinaksha Dutt, Buddhist Sects in India
Hirakawa Akira, History of Indian Buddhism: from Sakyamuni to Early Mahayana
If that's too long for you, then there are two fairly reliable but much shorter works, both largely derivative upon Lamotte's research:
Nalinaksha Dutt, Buddhist Sects in India
Hirakawa Akira, History of Indian Buddhism: from Sakyamuni to Early Mahayana
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Early schools
Thanks, Bhante. Lamotte's text looks a bit outdated. I might try to find a copy of Dutt's text.
Re: Early schools
Bareau's "The sects of the lesser vehicle" is a better source for "early schools".Dhammanando wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:29 am If you want the full monty, then there's Étienne Lamotte's 870-page History of Indian Buddhism.
If that's too long for you, then there are two fairly reliable but much shorter works, both largely derivative upon Lamotte's research:
Nalinaksha Dutt, Buddhist Sects in India
Hirakawa Akira, History of Indian Buddhism: from Sakyamuni to Early Mahayana
Warder's "Indian Buddhism" is also better than Lamotte in my opinion. Less "philological".
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
Re: Early schools
If we have read the account of Atthakatha on this regard beforehand, then it is easier to proceed with comparative studies.
Samantapasadika Vinaya Atthakatha- Nidana Katha (English translation) : Inception of Discipline and The Vinaya Nidana
And Kathavatthu supports learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
Samantapasadika Vinaya Atthakatha- Nidana Katha (English translation) : Inception of Discipline and The Vinaya Nidana
And Kathavatthu supports learning more about the differences between the views of early sects.
- Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Early schools
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br
http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
Re: Early schools
Thank you! Here's another version, somewhat better formatted:Eko Care wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:12 pm If we have read the account of Atthakatha on this regard beforehand, then it is easier to proceed with comparative studies.
Samantapasadika Vinaya Atthakatha- Nidana Katha (English translation) : Inception of Discipline and The Vinaya Nidana
https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/books ... a_10448437
Some people may find more convenient to read:
https://archive.org/details/sacredbooks ... 9/mode/2up
Re: Early schools
What most important in distinguishing early schools is not their exact date of origin, but the difference between their view points, I think.
Learning clearly about how the Theravada sees other schools is more important before learning how other schools see Theravada, I think.
The Debates Commentary. Translation of the Kathāvatthu Commentary.
Translated for the first time by Bimala Churn Law, Ph.D., M.A., B.L. Pali Text Society's Translation Series. Oxford University Press, 1940.
The Debates Commentary.(PTS)
Learning clearly about how the Theravada sees other schools is more important before learning how other schools see Theravada, I think.
The Debates Commentary. Translation of the Kathāvatthu Commentary.
Translated for the first time by Bimala Churn Law, Ph.D., M.A., B.L. Pali Text Society's Translation Series. Oxford University Press, 1940.
The Debates Commentary.(PTS)
An important implication of the commentary to this controversy, though it is not clear from the Kathavatthu text itself, is that ...
According to the Kathavatthupakarana Atthakatha, the Andhakas, their sub-groups the Aparaseliyas and Pubbaseliyas, and the Uttarapathakas, as well as the Theravadins were involved in the controversies .. The Kathdvatthu Niyama Debates.pdf
- retrofuturist
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Re: Early schools
Greetings,
It is always better for holders of a particular view to explain it as it appears to them, rather than have self-serving strawmen and misrepresentations foisted upon them by another who seeks only to discredit them. Alas, most early schools are not in a position to do that.
My readings suggest that by virtue of one school's chosen way of seeing, they distorted, misrepresented and misunderstood the other schools - intentionally or otherwise. All of which renders such comparative analysis of limited value unless one enjoys cheering on one's team as they tilt at windmills, shadowbox with imagined enemies, and predictably claim victory.
Metta,
Paul.
That sounds rather lop-sided and sectarian.
It is always better for holders of a particular view to explain it as it appears to them, rather than have self-serving strawmen and misrepresentations foisted upon them by another who seeks only to discredit them. Alas, most early schools are not in a position to do that.
My readings suggest that by virtue of one school's chosen way of seeing, they distorted, misrepresented and misunderstood the other schools - intentionally or otherwise. All of which renders such comparative analysis of limited value unless one enjoys cheering on one's team as they tilt at windmills, shadowbox with imagined enemies, and predictably claim victory.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Early schools
•483 BCE: Buddha dies ('attains parinibbana') at Kushinagar, India. Three months following his death, the First Buddhist council is convened at Rajagaha, India.
•383 BCE: The Second Buddhist council is convened by King Kalasoka and held at Vaisali.
•250 BCE: Third Buddhist council, convened by King Ashoka and chaired by Moggaliputta Tissa, compiles the Kathavatthu to refute the heretical views and theories held by some Buddhist sects. Ashoka issues a number of edicts (Edicts of Ashoka) about the kingdom in support of Buddhism.
Dhammawiki
383 B.C.E. • The Second Council convenes in Vesali to discuss controversial points of Vinaya. The first schism of the Sangha occurs, in which the Mahasanghika school parts ways with the traditionalist Sthaviravadins. At issue is the Mahasanghika's reluctance to accept the Suttas and the Vinaya as the final authority on the Buddha's teachings. This schism marks the first beginnings of what would later evolve into Mahayana Buddhism.
Buddhanet
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Re: Early schools
Do you have a link for Kathavathu translation?Eko Care wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:50 am•483 BCE: Buddha dies ('attains parinibbana') at Kushinagar, India. Three months following his death, the First Buddhist council is convened at Rajagaha, India.
•383 BCE: The Second Buddhist council is convened by King Kalasoka and held at Vaisali.
•250 BCE: Third Buddhist council, convened by King Ashoka and chaired by Moggaliputta Tissa, compiles the Kathavatthu to refute the heretical views and theories held by some Buddhist sects. Ashoka issues a number of edicts (Edicts of Ashoka) about the kingdom in support of Buddhism.
Dhammawiki383 B.C.E. • The Second Council convenes in Vesali to discuss controversial points of Vinaya. The first schism of the Sangha occurs, in which the Mahasanghika school parts ways with the traditionalist Sthaviravadins. At issue is the Mahasanghika's reluctance to accept the Suttas and the Vinaya as the final authority on the Buddha's teachings. This schism marks the first beginnings of what would later evolve into Mahayana Buddhism.
Buddhanet
Deleted
Re: Early schools
The following pages 2-7 (in p. 5 a figure on The First Five Centuries of Buddhism) by Choong Mun-keat may be useful:
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- Pages 2-7 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000.pdf
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Re: Early schools
Also, regarding the date of the Buddha, he published the following paper in 2004, "A Discussion on the Determination of the Date of the Historical Buddha" in Journal of Indian History, pp. 1-6. https://www.academia.edu/39352049/Discu ... cal_Buddha
He concludes (p. 4): "There is no sure basis for choosing among these three". That is, the three possible dates for the Buddha's lifetime are: (1) c. 566-486, (2) c. 464-384, and (3) c. 508-428.
Re: Early schools
Sharing some interesting videos (I think these were lectures in Indian university) about Early Buddhism schools that I found on YouTube:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false