Eight Liberations and Samadhi

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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Pondera
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Eight Liberations and Samadhi

Post by Pondera »

It is my opinion that the samadhi produced in the first, second and third jhanas are examples of the “Eight Liberations” preached by the Buddha. For example.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .vaji.html
Eight Liberations
33. "Now there are eight liberations, Ananda. What are those eight? [33]

34. "Oneself having form, [34] one perceives forms; this is the first liberation.
Because rapture and sukha are feelings, we assume the meditator is “oneself having form”.

That he is outwardly intent on outer forms (ie. “one perceives forms”) the meditator is not simply in a state of mindfulness; but rather aloof from the ordinary trappings of bodily sensation that both keep him inwardly introspective and prevent him from adopting a form of concentration that looks outwards and fixates on external forms.

The second liberation, (IMHO) refers to what one experiences in the fourth jhana. The supramundane feature of the fourth jhana is “adukkhaasukkha” (often mistranslated as “a neutral feeling”; when it should be translated as “that which goes beyond both pleasure and pain”. If not this, then what is the upward trajectory of a jhana which excludes rapture and bliss instead for a simple “neutral” feeling? That makes no sense.)

Adukkhaasukkha should be more sublime even than the bliss felt in the third jhana. For that reason the fourth jhana is the basis of the second liberation. Here:
35. "Being unaware of one's own form, one perceives forms external to oneself; this is the second liberation.
Adukkhaasukkha transcends bodily feeling altogether, and thus he is unaware of his own form; and equanimity establishes his fixed and focused concentration on outward forms.

Thence, the very basic quality of achieving samadhi in any of the first three rupa jhanas is a liberation in itself and an attainment of samadhi in the fourth jhana is a second higher liberation in and of itself.
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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frank k
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Re: Eight Liberations and Samadhi

Post by frank k »

I would say only the 4th jhana, a well developed one where one has enough light and jhana battery sufficiently charged to be able to see visions in meditation, would fall under vimokkha #1.

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... earch.html
also see:
https://lucid24.org/sted/8abhibhayatana/index.html

Pondera wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:18 am It is my opinion that the samadhi produced in the first, second and third jhanas are examples of the “Eight Liberations” preached by the Buddha. For example.
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auto
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Re: Eight Liberations and Samadhi

Post by auto »

Pondera wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:18 am It is my opinion that the samadhi produced in the first, second and third jhanas are examples of the “Eight Liberations” preached by the Buddha. For example.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .vaji.html
wrote: Eight Liberations
33. "Now there are eight liberations, Ananda. What are those eight? [33]

34. "Oneself having form, [34] one perceives forms; this is the first liberation.
Because rapture and sukha are feelings, we assume the meditator is “oneself having form”.

That he is outwardly intent on outer forms (ie. “one perceives forms”) the meditator is not simply in a state of mindfulness; but rather aloof from the ordinary trappings of bodily sensation that both keep him inwardly introspective and prevent him from adopting a form of concentration that looks outwards and fixates on external forms.
Form that it spokes of in first liberation could be attabhava(lifeform) what arises from greed, hatred and delusion. The liberation here is when you stop doing bad deeds, you are able to see attabhava while having an attabhava.
auto
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Re: Eight Liberations and Samadhi

Post by auto »

Pondera wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:18 am The second liberation, (IMHO) refers to what one experiences in the fourth jhana. The supramundane feature of the fourth jhana is “adukkhaasukkha” (often mistranslated as “a neutral feeling”; when it should be translated as “that which goes beyond both pleasure and pain”. If not this, then what is the upward trajectory of a jhana which excludes rapture and bliss instead for a simple “neutral” feeling? That makes no sense.)

Adukkhaasukkha should be more sublime even than the bliss felt in the third jhana. For that reason the fourth jhana is the basis of the second liberation. Here:
wrote: 35. "Being unaware of one's own form, one perceives forms external to oneself; this is the second liberation.
Adukkhaasukkha transcends bodily feeling altogether, and thus he is unaware of his own form; and equanimity establishes his fixed and focused concentration on outward forms.

Thence, the very basic quality of achieving samadhi in any of the first three rupa jhanas is a liberation in itself and an attainment of samadhi in the fourth jhana is a second higher liberation in and of itself.
if to follow these quotes, it is possible that the 2nd liberation is when the sight(external) is seen impacting the eye(internal).
https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/sujato wrote: Not perceiving form internally, they see visions externally.
Ajjhattaṁ arūpasaññī bahiddhā rūpāni passati,
This is the second liberation.
ayaṁ dutiyo vimokkho.
what clever person investigates is the dangers, they are hidden, not seen in internal sense field, but they are potentially there,
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.238/en/sujato wrote: ‘Empty village’ is a term for the six interior sense fields.
Suñño gāmoti kho, bhikkhave, channetaṁ ajjhattikānaṁ āyatanānaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
If an astute, competent, clever person investigates this in relation to the eye, it appears vacant, hollow, and empty.
Cakkhuto cepi naṁ, bhikkhave, paṇḍito byatto medhāvī upaparikkhati rittakaññeva khāyati, tucchakaññeva khāyati, suññakaññeva khāyati …pe…
internal sensefields are struct by external sensefields,
wrote:‘Bandits who raid villages’ is a term for the six exterior sense fields.
Corā gāmaghātakāti kho, bhikkhave, channetaṁ bāhirānaṁ āyatanānaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
The eye is struck by both agreeable and disagreeable sights.
Cakkhu, bhikkhave, haññati manāpāmanāpesu rūpesu;
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