Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Thought I would share what the Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra has to say on Jhāna. Enjoy.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Some more
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
And more
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Harivarman proves that the dhyāna is not needed at all for Enlightenment. Not at all, even pre-dhyāna.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
He does share the view with Theravāda and Sarvāstivāda that there is a dry insight way to nibbāna, yes. It seems he was also working from a version of the Susīma sutta where some Arahants are said to be without Jhāna, similar to the Sarvāstivādin one.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
No, he advocates prajñā path, not dhyāna path.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Well regardless I was saying that he argued for it being possible to awaken without Jhāna.sphairos wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:12 pmNo, he advocates prajñā path, not dhyāna path.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
A question then arises, if awakening can occur without any Jhāna why did the Buddha need them? Wouldn't that mean that the Buddha had somewhat of a lesser mind compared to those who just awaken due to wisdom? They just get it, but the Buddha himself had to use Jhāna to get there on such a view it seems.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
-
- Posts: 1802
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
It certainly has some novel ideas about vittaka & vicara... it would be interesting to read page 390 & 391.
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Sadly the pages are missing in my copy.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:46 pm It certainly has some novel ideas about vittaka & vicara... it would be interesting to read page 390 & 391.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Its freely available on archive.orgCeisiwr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:48 pmSadly the pages are missing in my copy.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:46 pm It certainly has some novel ideas about vittaka & vicara... it would be interesting to read page 390 & 391.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
-
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:30 pm
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
The translation is somewhat tricky, but this is very interesting. Thanks for posting.
It looks like Harivarman is stating that the five sense consciousnesses cease in second jhana in multiple places of the above. I'll have to read this more closely to try and figure out what Harivarman (and the translator) is trying to say about kama/vitakka/vicara etc.
It looks like Harivarman is stating that the five sense consciousnesses cease in second jhana in multiple places of the above. I'll have to read this more closely to try and figure out what Harivarman (and the translator) is trying to say about kama/vitakka/vicara etc.
-
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:30 pm
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
The archive copy found here: https://archive.org/details/104775752-s ... harivarman is missing the same pages.sphairos wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:42 pmIts freely available on archive.orgCeisiwr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:48 pmSadly the pages are missing in my copy.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:46 pm It certainly has some novel ideas about vittaka & vicara... it would be interesting to read page 390 & 391.
-
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:30 pm
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Am I understanding it correctly that the Tattvasiddhi is claiming vitakka and vicara are not present in the first jhana? This is really bizarre if I'm reading it right.waryoffolly wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:44 pm I'll have to read this more closely to try and figure out what Harivarman (and the translator) is trying to say about kama/vitakka/vicara etc.
There are several places where this is argued for. For example:
I'm finding these quotes very bizarre.The opinion that the first dhyana is associated with vitarka and vicara is not good; for, according to the Sutra in the first dhyana, the ascetic ceased the speech. Vitarka and Vicara are causes of the speech. How is there the cause of speech, but the speech is ceased.
......
The first dhyana is not the noble speechless state because it is in close vicinity with vitarka and vicara and not because it is associated with them
.......
The statement that the "vitarka and vicara are stilled" does not imply that the first dhyana has them.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Tattvasiddhi-Śāstra on Jhāna
Mind voice is thought but has no need to open the mouth
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...