Danger of spiritual pride?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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MaeCheeWannabe
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Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by MaeCheeWannabe »

I am closer to making a decision to ordain as bhikkhuni. I have decided to live as if i have already taken all precepts as much as possible until my daughter is grown and then maybe ordain. However...what would be the purpose of fully ordaining? Would it not lend to spirita\l pride? Or is it better to have the title to reach and help more people? Would i really have more opportunity to help others fully ordained? Or layperson? As a layperson people may be less intimidated by me?

I am really examining this. I tend to enjoy taking on controversy so i have researched to ensure i dont have subconscous intentions based on pride. I certainly do not want to enter into this to stir the pot. Instead i like to believe my intentions are purer than that...but i am trying to look at my heart with brutal honestly. I would rather live as a lay person than succumb to pride because if that were to happen i would not be able to help others.
:anjali:
Mae Khao Noi
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samseva
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by samseva »

Good luck with your goal to ordain. :smile:
MaeCheeWannabe wrote:I am really examining this. I tend to enjoy taking on controversy so i have researched to ensure i dont have subconscous intentions based on pride. I certainly do not want to enter into this to stir the pot. Instead i like to believe my intentions are purer than that...but i am trying to look at my heart with brutal honestly. I would rather live as a lay person than succumb to pride because if that were to happen i would not be able to help others.
Looking deep within at your intentions is the right thing to do. However, don't worry excessively about "succumbing" to spiritual pride. Be mindful of your intentions, seeing that pride is based on delusion, as well as reflecting and contemplating your positive intentions. You should be fine. :smile:
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dhammacoustic
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by dhammacoustic »

There is no such thing as spiritual pride. All pride is mental.
what would be the purpose of fully ordaining?
Nibbāna.
I would rather live as a lay person than succumb to pride because if that were to happen i would not be able to help others.
You wanna help others how?

:anjali:
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samseva
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by samseva »

dhammacoustic wrote:There is no such thing as spiritual pride. All pride is mental.
Yes, all pride is mental, but there is such a thing as spiritual pride; which is pride based on ones attainments or progress, or anything about the spiritual path used as a means of conceit. It is a variant of atimāna (superiority-conceit).
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dhammacoustic
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by dhammacoustic »

samseva wrote:Yes, all pride is mental, but there is such a thing as spiritual pride; which is pride based on ones attainments or progress, or anything about the spiritual path used as a means of conceit. It is a variant of atimāna (superiority-conceit).
Well, that's still mental :) it has to be.
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subaru
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by subaru »

I am in similar situation, I have asked myself similar questions.
But I suspect that there is nothing to be proud about, because even if I am absolutely right, then I would be wrong if I am proud about it.

My primary concern is the 227 rules which I think will be a burden for me rather than aiding me to walk the path due to my defilement
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SarathW
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by SarathW »

I haven't met many monks who got spiritual pride.
If any thing, they are very humble.
I only once felt about a very popular monk in the internet (not the regular monks in Dhamma wheel), that may have some form of spiritual pride.
But it is not the norm.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Cittasanto
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Re: Danger of spiritual pride?

Post by Cittasanto »

MaeCheeWannabe wrote:I am closer to making a decision to ordain as bhikkhuni. I have decided to live as if i have already taken all precepts as much as possible until my daughter is grown and then maybe ordain. However...what would be the purpose of fully ordaining? Would it not lend to spirita\l pride? Or is it better to have the title to reach and help more people? Would i really have more opportunity to help others fully ordained? Or layperson? As a layperson people may be less intimidated by me?

I am really examining this. I tend to enjoy taking on controversy so i have researched to ensure i dont have subconscous intentions based on pride. I certainly do not want to enter into this to stir the pot. Instead i like to believe my intentions are purer than that...but i am trying to look at my heart with brutal honestly. I would rather live as a lay person than succumb to pride because if that were to happen i would not be able to help others.
There are several topics on ordination which doing a search at the top of the page or using google saffron (link at bottom left of pages) that may be of use to you.
The rules, reflections... of the mendicant actually cut away pride, and the lifestyle of a mendicant is to make things more conductive to progress on the path. It is good that you are being cautious about any feelings of pride there may be, as the Dhammapada 3 & 4 story has pride being the source of the issue being discussed.

May you fare well on this path

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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