If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
JC938
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If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by JC938 »

Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
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confusedlayman
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by confusedlayman »

JC938 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:06 pm Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
If i were a monk, i will eat if im really hungry as hungry man cant practice dhamma.

if im not hungry, i wont eat.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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rightviewftw
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by rightviewftw »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:21 pm
JC938 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:06 pm Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
If i were a monk, i will eat if im really hungry as hungry man cant practice dhamma.

if im not hungry, i wont eat.
You should read https://suttacentral.net/mn65/en/bodhi

First comes the restraint of the senses, then comes the moderation in eating and then comes devotion to wakefulness. The three make a foundation for the destruction of the taints.

As to what happens in monasteres, from what i've seen, most monks eat breakfast and lunch. Furthermore they snack on tea, cheese and chocolate in the afternoon as if it's medicine or something. I wouldn't eat two meals but if i had leftovers of food that is good for me, i would two-session it before noon.
'Bhikkhus, possessing three qualities, a bhikkhu is practicing the unmistaken way and has laid the groundwork for the destruction of the taints. What three? Here, a bhikkhu guards the doors of the sense faculties, observes moderation in eating, and is intent on wakefulness. He should develop perception of unattractiveness so as to abandon lust... good will so as to abandon ill will... mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off distractive thinking... the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

If monks are famished in the afternoon, for some reason (being sick, dāyakas bring alms too late, etc.), they can make use of the five tonics:
  1. Sappi = Ghee
  2. Navanītaṃ = Butter (not cheese)
  3. Telaṃ = Oil
  4. Madhu = Honey
  5. Phāṇitaṃ = Sugar (cane sugar, palm sugar, jaggery, molasses, boiled sweets without nuts, etc.)
This tonics are allowable for one who is sick, not for one who is not sick. “Sick” in this context includes being famished due to vomiting one’s meal, or for other reasons.

Sugar dissolved in water is allowable for one who is not sick. So is clear fruit juice.

There are also some other medicines made from leaves, which are not regarded as solid food. So, mint tea, but not cabbage soup. Medicines made from roots: e.g. ginger. See the Buddhist Monastic Code for more details.
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form
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by form »

Can they drink tea or coffee or milk drink?
justindesilva
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by justindesilva »

form wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:55 am Can they drink tea or coffee or milk drink?
With my association of buddhist monks, they only accept plane tea with sugar or no sugar after the meals at noon.
( Especially strictly by upasampada theros).
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rightviewftw
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by rightviewftw »

form wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:55 am Can they drink tea or coffee or milk drink?
Afaik there are no specific rules against tea & coffee but i personally think it is a bad idea because of the stimulant effect of caffeine and that of tea. If one relies on these for staying awake it is bad because it doesn't incline the mind to wakefulness but to drinking more of the drug and there comes to be a dependence not to mention headaches of withdrawal.

When i was living at the monastery i've had a monk ask me to offer him many kinds of tea in the afternoon, it was very inappropriate to ask a lay person that. I can sympathise as there was some pressure to keep a certain schedule but i think that relying on tea is a bad idea and there monk broke vinaya because of his dependence.

I can see it being useful for medicinal purpose tho.
'Bhikkhus, possessing three qualities, a bhikkhu is practicing the unmistaken way and has laid the groundwork for the destruction of the taints. What three? Here, a bhikkhu guards the doors of the sense faculties, observes moderation in eating, and is intent on wakefulness. He should develop perception of unattractiveness so as to abandon lust... good will so as to abandon ill will... mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off distractive thinking... the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.
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confusedlayman
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by confusedlayman »

rightviewftw wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:21 pm
JC938 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:06 pm Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
If i were a monk, i will eat if im really hungry as hungry man cant practice dhamma.

if im not hungry, i wont eat.
You should read https://suttacentral.net/mn65/en/bodhi

First comes the restraint of the senses, then comes the moderation in eating and then comes devotion to wakefulness. The three make a foundation for the destruction of the taints.

As to what happens in monasteres, from what i've seen, most monks eat breakfast and lunch. Furthermore they snack on tea, cheese and chocolate in the afternoon as if it's medicine or something. I wouldn't eat two meals but if i had leftovers of food that is good for me, i would two-session it before noon.
moderation in eating is different for diff monks. as a layman with big tummy i cant enjoy 1 meal a day on first day of ordination but if thats the only way then i follow it
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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salayatananirodha
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by salayatananirodha »

moderation in eating is different for diff monks. as a layman with big tummy i cant enjoy 1 meal a day on first day of ordination but if thats the only way then i follow it
i have been eating only before (solar) noon for the past year and a half as a layperson, usually one meal only but occasionally more than one. i dont find it terribly difficult, and it provides structure and added calm. i also eat a lot sometimes and eat rich and diverse foods. i notice how other people get confused based on when they eat, i on the other hand dont usually feel hungry, and i also dont experience much illness, except for making bad lifestyle choices like excess caffeine and energy drinks [i thought about this after i posted and wanted to say i have had a few strange health episodes and have normally been a mostly very healthy person, aside from a very bad back. the buddha said he lived in health and comfort as a result of eating one meal a day, and even though i feel like this seems to line up with my experience i'm wary of trying too hard to represent my experience as matching up completely...]
i dont say everyone should hop to this practice straight away but its very beneficial and for me it kind of fell into place, definitely recommend
btw i do fruit juice and things but these are more for my enjoyment than necessary... have done a bit of honey or oil a handful of times and been doing sugary sodas now or sports drink
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
form
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by form »

salayatananirodha wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:09 pm
moderation in eating is different for diff monks. as a layman with big tummy i cant enjoy 1 meal a day on first day of ordination but if thats the only way then i follow it
i have been eating only before (solar) noon for the past year and a half as a layperson, usually one meal only but occasionally more than one. i dont find it terribly difficult, and it provides structure and added calm. i also eat a lot sometimes and eat rich and diverse foods. i notice how other people get confused based on when they eat, i on the other hand dont usually feel hungry, and i also dont experience much illness, except for making bad lifestyle choices like excess caffeine and energy drinks [i thought about this after i posted and wanted to say i have had a few strange health episodes and have normally been a mostly very healthy person, aside from a very bad back. the buddha said he lived in health and comfort as a result of eating one meal a day, and even though i feel like this seems to line up with my experience i'm wary of trying too hard to represent my experience as matching up completely...]
i dont say everyone should hop to this practice straight away but its very beneficial and for me it kind of fell into place, definitely recommend
btw i do fruit juice and things but these are more for my enjoyment than necessary... have done a bit of honey or oil a handful of times and been doing sugary sodas now or sports drink
U dun do much physical work after noon do u?
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salayatananirodha
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by salayatananirodha »

i do and can
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
Bikkhutittadammo
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by Bikkhutittadammo »

At my monastery there's a lot of hard physical work, wood chopping, building projects, we go for hill walks as well.

And we still stick to moderation in eating , only one meal a day, maybe toast or a spoon of peanut butter in the morning some days.

It's perfectly adequate and we still work hard, also practice. Any monk who is complaining about hunger and weakness and inability to practice lacks enough faith and viriya. Get a grip, be content with what you get, be grateful for every donation.

If I wanted to eat after lunch I can always disrobe and indulge
Chanh Dao
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by Chanh Dao »

JC938 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:06 pm Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
It's extremely common throughout SE Asia for monastics to eat after noon.

Temples where it would be prohibited are certainly abnormal from my experience.

It's one of the rules the modern Sangha by majority does not follow particularly closely.

Some monastics will consider the evening meal to be a "Medicine Meal"
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confusedlayman
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by confusedlayman »

update

just realized monks should eat one meal a day in morning or at late before early afternoon

this is to improve digestion, make body light weight, live at ease, focus on practice, dont bother household with another alms round, reduce craving, etc

i early post said i will eat whenever im hungry which is not true now.. if u focus on breath and content with one meal, u wont be hunger... there are many tricks to deal with hunger other than eating another meal...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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salayatananirodha
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Re: If you are a monk. Do you eat anything after noon?

Post by salayatananirodha »

Chanh Dao wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:22 am
JC938 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:06 pm Hi,

As the title. Do you eat anything after noon if you are a monk?

Thanks
It's extremely common throughout SE Asia for monastics to eat after noon.

Temples where it would be prohibited are certainly abnormal from my experience.

It's one of the rules the modern Sangha by majority does not follow particularly closely.

Some monastics will consider the evening meal to be a "Medicine Meal"
sad
https://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/ch ... lm.sbb.htm
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
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