Certainty and monastic life

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
lostitude
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by lostitude »

Spiny Norman wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:49 pm
lostitude wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:44 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:29 pm How did the buddha live under a tree?

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.p ... 5&start=15
Listen, I’m the one asking the questions here :lol:
Sorry I really don’t see what you’re getting at.
It's your thread.
Exactly. But you’re kindly invited to it.
SarathW
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by SarathW »

lostitude wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:44 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:29 pm How did the buddha live under a tree?

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.p ... 5&start=15
Listen, I’m the one asking the questions here :lol:
Sorry I really don’t see what you’re getting at.
My thread discusses the life of a wandering monk and their experiences.
Sorry if it is no help for you.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
lostitude
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by lostitude »

SarathW wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:42 pm
lostitude wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:44 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:29 pm How did the buddha live under a tree?

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.p ... 5&start=15
Listen, I’m the one asking the questions here :lol:
Sorry I really don’t see what you’re getting at.
My thread discusses the life of a wandering monk and their experiences.
Sorry if it is no help for you.
Thank you Sarath and sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were asking me questions to lead me to understand something and I had no idea what :D
SteRo
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by SteRo »

lostitude wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:31 pm The related question is whether such uncertainty is conducive to the path,
Depends. In some heaps of aggregates that might cause hindrances in others not.
lostitude wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:31 pm and whether conversely, being able to rely on this certainty is a subtle form of attachment that may at some point obstruct any further progress on the path.
Again: In some heaps of aggregates that might cause hindrances in others not.

Usually conditions that foster peace of mind are beneficial. However in some that might also cause lethargy and/or laziness.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
santa100
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by santa100 »

lostitude wrote:The related question is whether such uncertainty is conducive to the path, and whether conversely, being able to rely on this certainty is a subtle form of attachment that may at some point obstruct any further progress on the path.
The advantage(or disadvantage depending on perspective) of monastics over wanderer is that proper shelter is guaranteed, and meals are also almost guaranteed, while there's no such thing for wanderer. Ultimately it's important to maintain some level of uncertainty, for afterall, if it's too easy to obtain the four requisites, then an unenlightened monk/nun would no longer have the necessary drive/urgency to cultivate and make progress on the Path. It's plain simple unenlightened human nature! On the other hand, if it's too difficult to obtain even the bare minimum of the requisites, then it also becomes an obstruction to making progress, for unless one's already attained very high level of samadhi/panna, it's exceedingly difficult to meditate with an empty belly for a few days.
lostitude
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by lostitude »

Completely by chance I was listening to a talk by Bhante Nyanamoli where he raises the issue of attachment to a monastery and he seems to be pointing to the same problem I was vaguely suspecting. It starts at around 19:30 :
bhante dhamma
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by bhante dhamma »

Indeed this was an 'issue' even during the Buddhas time also,

AN 5.221-224
(4) Miserly
“Bhikkhus, there are these five dangers in residing too long [in the same place]. What five? One becomes miserly with dwelling places, miserly with families, miserly with gains, miserly with praise, and miserly with the Dhamma."

If I think about the monks i know who never did any carika/tudong or if they did it was not really something they ever managed to develop an appreciation for i would conclude that it is due to not having a good perception of the five macchariya afore mentioned. And it's not like you cant do it in the West either, instead of being a village to village no lay attendent/kappiya' type arrangment its more a tent with a lay attendent/kappiya style each having its own set of challenges and benefits. I would have liked to have done more wandering when i was healthier and was incedently planning to try the AT (Appalachian Trail) or PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) in the US as a finale before i maraṇa. Sadly enough most Abbots I know don't even think about doing tudong/carika- be it the West or in Asia-anymore as the more social status you get the more sunk in 'vatthu kāma' you become it seems. As per the sutta quoted plus vinaya regarding 3 months vassana you could infer a good balance could be something like 3 or 6 months in residence 6 months wandering, wandering can also just mean being away from your resident monastery, or a bit out of your comfort zone. Idk there's something about being away from people and places, cities and the world that helps shift your mind state, hence the Buddha saying..
,
“When, Nāgita, I am traveling on a highway and do not see anyone ahead of me or behind me, even if it is for the purpose of defecating and urinating, on that occasion I am at ease.” AN 6.42
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TamHanhHi
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Re: Certainty and monastic life

Post by TamHanhHi »

In MN 17, the Buddha makes the point that the place or mode of practice doesn't really matter—what matters is if you are making progress on the path. Some will find that the wandering life suits them best. Others will find a settled life is better. Or perhaps a mix. Some monks change monasteries each year, never staying in the same place twice.

Won't know until you try?
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."AN 5.38
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