Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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In your opinion, should all monks in a certain monastery follow the same methods and practices?

Yes, all monks in a monastery should homogeneously practice the same things.
4
24%
No, monks should practice what they wish. If a monk wants to practice Mahasi Sayadaw's method in a Pa Auk Sayadaw monastery, he should, why not?
8
47%
I don't think so. I don't think in that way. I don't think otherwise. I don't think not. I don't think not not.
5
29%
 
Total votes: 17

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rhinoceroshorn
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Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

I want to know your opinions about it. :popcorn:

Should all monks in a certain monastery strictly follow a single system or what they believe it's their ideal path?
Last edited by rhinoceroshorn on Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by Mahabrahma »

Whatever is beneficial for them. If there are great things being taught at the monastery, then they aught to follow that guidance, then they will benefit. However, if some monk is locked into some amount of private personal practice, and that has been working for them, then that should go on. However, in a monestary everyone should be doing a number of Same or similar communual things, to make it work, everyone should live under the guidance of the Teachings being brought fourth there. :reading: :buddha1:
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
coconut
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by coconut »

Should they follow the Sadhamma (true dhamma)? Yes.

However this is just wishful thinking that is inappropriate attention. Those who will get it, will get it, those who won't get it, won't get it, and there's not much you can do to change that, and not even the Buddha could change that. All you can do, like the Buddha did, is not waste time on those who 1) don't get it or 2) are not able to get it.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:41 pm Whatever is beneficial for them. If there are great things being taught at the monastery, then they aught to follow that guidance, then they will benefit. However, if some monk is locked into some amount of private personal practice, and that has been working for them, then that should go on. However, in a monestary everyone should be doing a number of Same or similar communual things, to make it work, everyone should live under the guidance of the Teachings being brought fourth there. :reading: :buddha1:
:goodpost:
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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Dhammanando
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by Dhammanando »

I don't think there's any "should" or "shouldn't" about it. Bhikkhus fraternize "by way of elements".

In a monastery where there's only one teacher and he's only skilled at teaching one thing, bhikkhus will go there because their inclination is to learn that one thing and so that will be the one thing that's practised there. In a monastery like the one described below the opposite obtains:
Walking Back and Forth
(SN 14:15)

On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Rājagaha on Mount Vulture Peak. Now on that occasion, not far from the Blessed One, the Venerable Sāriputta was walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus; the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna … the Venerable Mahākassapa … the Venerable Anuruddha … the Venerable Puṇṇa Mantāniputta … the Venerable Upāli … the Venerable Ānanda was walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus. And not far from the Blessed One, Devadatta too was walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus.

Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus thus: “Bhikkhus, do you see Sāriputta walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are of great wisdom.

“Do you see Moggallāna walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus have great spiritual power.

“Do you see Kassapa walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are proponents of the ascetic practices.

“Do you see Anuruddha walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus possess the divine eye.

“Do you see Puṇṇa Mantāniputta walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are speakers on the Dhamma.

“Do you see Upāli walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are upholders of the Discipline.

“Do you see Ānanda walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are highly learned.

“Do you see Devadatta walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus have evil wishes.

“Bhikkhus, it is by way of elements that beings come together and unite. Those of an inferior disposition come together and unite with those of an inferior disposition; those of a good disposition come together and unite with those of a good disposition. In the past they did so, in the future they will do so, and now at present they do so too.”
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:14 pmIn a monastery like the one described below the opposite obtains:
Sounds wonderful!!
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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DNS
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by DNS »

Practice as they wish, within reason, within Theravada practices. To use an extreme example, they shouldn't be preaching about the blood of Jesus and speaking in tongues and still calling themselves a Buddhist monk.
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Gwi
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by Gwi »

Who chooce C? :rofl:
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
SarathW
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by SarathW »

I think monks got an internal code of practice.
For instance in Kiribathgoda Nananada Asapuwa, they do not accept Abhidhamma. I believe it is the same in Ajahn Braham monastery as well.
It is not ideal but to maintain peace, you all have to practice and believe in one thing otherwise you have to leave the temple.
That is why it is important that you chose your teacher carefully.
I did not vote as I am not sure what to do about this conundrum.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 am I think monks got an internal code of practice.
For instance in Kiribathgoda Nananada Asapuwa, they do not accept Abhidhamma. I believe it is the same in Ajahn Braham monastery as well.
It is not ideal but to maintain peace, you all have to practice and believe in one thing otherwise you have to leave the temple.
That is why it is important that you chose your teacher carefully.
I did not vote as I am not sure what to do about this conundrum.
Thinking further on this topic.
Why diffrent monasteries have diffrent rules.
Isn't it just enough to say that they follow the Tipitaka hence the Vinaya rules?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:05 am Who chooce C? :rofl:

Postmodernists ?


:jumping:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
TRobinson465
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by TRobinson465 »

Dont most temples generally follow some kind of standard uniformity? I feel like itd be difficult otherwise. If they dont like practicing that way they can go somewhere else. The only temple i know of that i heard teaches a variety, such as a variety of meditation systems, is Songdhammakalyani Monastery. But that is a special case.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
SarathW
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by SarathW »

TRobinson465 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:31 am Dont most temples generally follow some kind of standard uniformity? I feel like itd be difficult otherwise. If they dont like practicing that way they can go somewhere else. The only temple i know of that i heard teaches a variety, such as a variety of meditation systems, is Songdhammakalyani Monastery. But that is a special case.
I think in practice the chief monk in the temple decide the fate of others.
If you do not agree with the chief monk you will be asked to go somewhere else.
It is like a forum, you have to abide by the forum rules.
For instance it is impossible to stay in a temple if you beleive Abhidhamma but the chief monk does not believe on it.
The supporters will get confused when one monk support Abhidamma and the other reject it.
I think this is why many supporters flock around a particular monk as Ven. Dhammanando suggested.
I think allowing different views within Tipitaka frame work strength the temple support base.

For instance Dhamma Wheel is growing as it allow many different opinion with a predetermine frame work.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
TRobinson465
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by TRobinson465 »

SarathW wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:59 am
I think in practice the chief monk in the temple decide the fate of others.
If you do not agree with the chief monk you will be asked to go somewhere else.
It is like a forum, you have to abide by the forum rules.
For instance it is impossible to stay in a temple if you beleive Abhidhamma but the chief monk does not believe on it.
The supporters will get confused when one monk support Abhidamma and the other reject it.
I think this is why many supporters flock around a particular monk as Ven. Dhammanando suggested.
I think allowing different views within Tipitaka frame work strength the temple support base.

For instance Dhamma Wheel is growing as it allow many different opinion with a predetermine frame work.
Yes, well, it doesnt make sense for you to ordain at a temple you disagree with on points of doctrine or practice to begin with. If you decided to go to one that was a bit of a hodge podge i think you would get some of the bickering you would see here as well as confusion among the laity you are teaching. Unless its something like an ecumenical temple that centers itself on teaching multiple forms of Buddhism. Ive actually been to one of those and its actually quite a wonderful place. But it only works because teaching a mix is whole the basis of that place (Zen classes on wednesday, Theravada on Sunday, etc.)
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
SarathW
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Re: Poll on homogeneity in a monastery

Post by SarathW »

Even in a place like Dhamma Wheel, the admin has to separate Mahayana, etc.
For example, we can't discuss Abrahamic religion in a Buddhist forum as that can be talking cheese and chalk.
I think what is allowed in DW is that members are allowed to discuss the Theravada Tipitaka with different interpretations.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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