Questions about monk life

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
User avatar
PursuingNirvana
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:12 am

Questions about monk life

Post by PursuingNirvana »

Hi everyone. I am thinking about becoming a full-time monk for the rest of my life, but I have some questions.

- Are monks allowed to take psychedelics?
- How much sleep do monks get?
- Are monks allowed to use devices and the internet?
- Are monks allowed to read any book? (non-dhamma books, books by different spiritual authors, self-development books, etc.)
- How many hours do monks meditate a day?
- Do monks get long holidays?
- How many hours do monks do chores/work a day?
- Do monks exercise?
- What do monks eat?

Thanks.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by confusedlayman »

Become a monk soon
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Meezer77
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:43 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by Meezer77 »

Read and understand the vinaya That is the set of rules you are expected to live by.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Ok here are my answers, but this only applies to the western Forest Tradition monasteries I've stayed at in Australia and New Zealand and a few in Thailand.

- Are monks allowed to take psychedelics?
No, and all monasteries I've stayed at would probably tell a monk to leave if he did.

- How much sleep do monks get?
Go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 3.30am. How much you nap during the daytime is up to you.

- Are monks allowed to use devices and the internet?
Yes, but at most of the western monasteries they strongly discourage it, and usually ban junior monks from having connected phones. In Thailand it's very different, I've seen most monks have a phone.

- Are monks allowed to read any book? (non-dhamma books, books by different spiritual authors, self-development books, etc.)
Yes. But dhamma books are strongly encouraged.

- How many hours do monks meditate a day?
From Zero for some unfortunate monks who think they can't, to maybe 8 hours of formal meditation on a normal day. When on retreat it's much more.

- Do monks get long holidays?
No. There are no holidays. You can go on retreats though, and when you're not so junior you can wander on Tudong, from place to place, trusting in random people for food and shelter.

- How many hours do monks do chores/work a day?
3 hours at the monasteries I've stayed at.

- Do monks exercise?
Yes if they want to.

- What do monks eat?
They take what they want from a big buffet, made up of Thai, Sri Lankan, and Western food. Some are vegetarian, It's possible.

That's just my experience, others may have a different experience. There are some current bhikkhus on this forum, they might give their answers if you're lucky.

Most monasteries will allow people such as you to book a stay, free of charge, for a few weeks or months, to experience the life for yourself. I highly recommend doing this.
User avatar
PursuingNirvana
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:12 am

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by PursuingNirvana »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:16 pm Ok here are my answers, but this only applies to the western Forest Tradition monasteries I've stayed at in Australia and New Zealand and a few in Thailand.

- Are monks allowed to take psychedelics?
No, and all monasteries I've stayed at would probably tell a monk to leave if he did.

- How much sleep do monks get?
Go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 3.30am. How much you nap during the daytime is up to you.

- Are monks allowed to use devices and the internet?
Yes, but at most of the western monasteries they strongly discourage it, and usually ban junior monks from having connected phones. In Thailand it's very different, I've seen most monks have a phone.

- Are monks allowed to read any book? (non-dhamma books, books by different spiritual authors, self-development books, etc.)
Yes. But dhamma books are strongly encouraged.

- How many hours do monks meditate a day?
From Zero for some unfortunate monks who think they can't, to maybe 8 hours of formal meditation on a normal day. When on retreat it's much more.

- Do monks get long holidays?
No. There are no holidays. You can go on retreats though, and when you're not so junior you can wander on Tudong, from place to place, trusting in random people for food and shelter.

- How many hours do monks do chores/work a day?
3 hours at the monasteries I've stayed at.

- Do monks exercise?
Yes if they want to.

- What do monks eat?
They take what they want from a big buffet, made up of Thai, Sri Lankan, and Western food. Some are vegetarian, It's possible.

That's just my experience, others may have a different experience. There are some current bhikkhus on this forum, they might give their answers if you're lucky.

Most monasteries will allow people such as you to book a stay, free of charge, for a few weeks or months, to experience the life for yourself. I highly recommend doing this.
Thank you! I live in New Zealand too!

- Do you know any monasteries in Auckland? Which ones would you recommend?

- How do monks buy non-dhamma books with the vow of poverty? Aren't the monastic libraries limited?

- Did you pay to stay in the monasteries? 3 hours is very little compared to what I've read online for people who want to ordain for free.


I may temporarily join a monastery. Psychedelics being forbidden is a dealbreaker for me as I plan to use them as a tool for my practice. Does it fall under the fifth precept of no intoxicants or drugs? I would've thought it could be categorised under medicine.
User avatar
PursuingNirvana
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:12 am

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by PursuingNirvana »

Also:
"Go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 3.30am. How much you nap during the daytime is up to you."

This amount of sleep seems very unhealthy. That's about 4-5 hours depending on how long it takes you to sleep, how is this sustainable for your health? And you can't choose what food you eat if you ordain for free right?
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by JamesTheGiant »

PursuingNirvana wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:47 pm Thank you! I live in New Zealand too!
- Do you know any monasteries in Auckland? Which ones would you recommend?
I've stayed at Vimutti, south of Auckland, turn off at the Bombay Hills exit.
https://vimutti.org.nz/visiting/
You would be welcome there I'm sure. First stay for a weekend, then ask if you can stay a month or so later.
The monk there is an American named Ajahn Chandako. He's pretty hardcore, energetic, and you could talk with him openly about psychedelics. He's direct and honest.

But!...the best monastery in New Zealand is near Wellington, it's called Bodhinyanarama. They have about 6 monks. I've stayed there for more than a year. I highly recommend bussing down all that way if you can. https://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/

-
Did you pay to stay in the monasteries? 3 hours is very little compared to what I've read online for people who want to ordain for free.
They've all been free. Those two I linked certainly don't charge anything. You can give a donation, but they need helpers more than they need cash at present I think.
Vimutti monastery sometimes works guests pretty hard, but Bodhinyanarama doesn't.
I may temporarily join a monastery. Psychedelics being forbidden is a dealbreaker for me as I plan to use them as a tool for my practice.
I understand. I used to do that too. It's interesting that a lot of western monks I've met have used psychedelics before they ordained. It has its uses.
Does it fall under the fifth precept of no intoxicants or drugs? I would've thought it could be categorised under medicine.
Yeah it's the Fifth precept. Technically the monks rules, the "Vinaya" doesn't explicitly forbid drug use, but the 5th precept kinda does. People have argued they're used as medicines or tools for exploration but it's not an argument which many bhikkhus would accept.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by JamesTheGiant »

PursuingNirvana wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:50 pm Also:
"Go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 3.30am. How much you nap during the daytime is up to you."

This amount of sleep seems very unhealthy. That's about 4-5 hours depending on how long it takes you to sleep, how is this sustainable for your health?
True, for some people it's not healthy. They can have a snooze in the afternoon. But you'd be surprised how little sleep you need, when you're meditating hours and hours each day.
And you can't choose what food you eat if you ordain for free right?
All the food is put on a big table and you just take what you like. You'll see.
User avatar
rhinoceroshorn
Posts: 1177
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

- Are monks allowed to take psychedelics?
I don't know. I have seen monks who smoke cigarettes and marijuana. It may depend on the monastery.
- How much sleep do monks get?
- Are monks allowed to use devices and the internet?
- Are monks allowed to read any book? (non-dhamma books, books by different spiritual authors, self-development books, etc.)
- How many hours do monks meditate a day?
- Do monks get long holidays?
- How many hours do monks do chores/work a day?
- Do monks exercise?

To all those questions: depends on the monastery. From my personal experience, you'll have less free time in Ajahn Chah monasteries. Also, more work, more silly strictness, mandatory meetings like morning chanting plus meditation, etc. You'll have more freedom in Dhammayuttika monasteries.
Be careful, some monasteries will make a slave of you.
- What do monks eat?
Generally, monasteries have plenty of food so you can choose what you eat. I'm vegetarian and in all monasteries I could eat like that.

My meal days ago:
Image
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
User avatar
PursuingNirvana
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:12 am

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by PursuingNirvana »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:31 am
PursuingNirvana wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:47 pm Thank you! I live in New Zealand too!
- Do you know any monasteries in Auckland? Which ones would you recommend?
I've stayed at Vimutti, south of Auckland, turn off at the Bombay Hills exit.
https://vimutti.org.nz/visiting/
You would be welcome there I'm sure. First stay for a weekend, then ask if you can stay a month or so later.
The monk there is an American named Ajahn Chandako. He's pretty hardcore, energetic, and you could talk with him openly about psychedelics. He's direct and honest.

But!...the best monastery in New Zealand is near Wellington, it's called Bodhinyanarama. They have about 6 monks. I've stayed there for more than a year. I highly recommend bussing down all that way if you can. https://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/

-
Did you pay to stay in the monasteries? 3 hours is very little compared to what I've read online for people who want to ordain for free.
They've all been free. Those two I linked certainly don't charge anything. You can give a donation, but they need helpers more than they need cash at present I think.
Vimutti monastery sometimes works guests pretty hard, but Bodhinyanarama doesn't.
I may temporarily join a monastery. Psychedelics being forbidden is a dealbreaker for me as I plan to use them as a tool for my practice.
I understand. I used to do that too. It's interesting that a lot of western monks I've met have used psychedelics before they ordained. It has its uses.
Does it fall under the fifth precept of no intoxicants or drugs? I would've thought it could be categorised under medicine.
Yeah it's the Fifth precept. Technically the monks rules, the "Vinaya" doesn't explicitly forbid drug use, but the 5th precept kinda does. People have argued they're used as medicines or tools for exploration but it's not an argument which many bhikkhus would accept.
Thanks a lot.

What made you decide you don't want to be a monk? Was it for more freedom?

I wonder if there's a monastery someone out there in the world that allows psychedelics.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by JamesTheGiant »

PursuingNirvana wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:43 am Thanks a lot.

What made you decide you don't want to be a monk? Was it for more freedom?
I was a monk for a few years, but in the end I had a relapse of an old health problem, and disrobed. The monastery said I was welcome back any time, so that's good.
Now I'm back in NZ. I still go to monasteries and help out with building.
And this past weekend I had a monk staying with me for the weekend, as he wandered around the South Island, so I'm still connected with that world.
I wonder if there's a monastery someone out there in the world that allows psychedelics.
Not a Buddhist one almost certainly. The Buddha was pretty clear about that sorry.
They don't accept the psychedelics as medicines or investigative tools argument.
User avatar
rhinoceroshorn
Posts: 1177
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

I don't want to discourage you, but you should first visit some monasteries to get a taste of what monkhood is all about. There is much fantasy.
We read the suttas and the records and we get the impression that monk life is something, but in actuality is a bit different. Many monks smoke, engage in idle chatter everyday, indulge in nam pana/delicious food, sleep a lot, use their cellphones a lot. It's not very different from lay life. Few people care about meditation. I sometimes get the impression my old lay life was holier than my life as an anagarika in a monastery, lol.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by JamesTheGiant »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:25 am I don't want to discourage you, but you should first visit some monasteries to get a taste of what monkhood is all about. There is much fantasy.
We read the suttas and the records and we get the impression that monk life is something, but in actuality is a bit different. Many monks smoke, engage in idle chatter everyday, indulge in nam pana/delicious food, sleep a lot, use their cellphones a lot. It's not very different from lay life. Few people care about meditation. I sometimes get the impression my old lay life was holier than my life as an anagarika in a monastery, lol.
So true! It's easy to be a lazy monk. I think however, that many Westerners who ordain end up as good monks, because they're the 0.0001% who are the lucky or determined ones, who see the universe is more than the 99.999% ever see.
User avatar
rhinoceroshorn
Posts: 1177
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

I wish I could live as a rhinoceros (sutta nipata 1.3), though it seems a distant dream. :)
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Questions about monk life

Post by confusedlayman »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:16 am I wish I could live as a rhinoceros (sutta nipata 1.3), though it seems a distant dream. :)
for that u need to come to india and take residence in Himalayas .. there are many caves and many normal monasteries but most are tibetian which won't affect ur practice anyways.. u can become pacceka buddha.. u can look at Govind lama rinpoche milerappa
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Post Reply