Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Eko Care
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Eko Care »

SDC wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:06 pm
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:29 pm Actually the fear of surrending to classical Theravada even when it sounds sensible, thinking that it forces us to believe it,
is the reason for being grown unnecessary defensive attitudes against the classical views, in modern minds.
This doesn’t make very much sense to me. It is about faith and trust, but surrendering would undermine either. The Buddha invited his disciples to see what he understood and the listener needs to commit to the work out of a concern that they are in actual danger. Thousands of suttas say as much and any person who reflects on n the danger of change and the inevitability of death - as the Buddha instructed - they will develop a sense of urgency and that is what will drive practice. I think surrender has connotations of giving away responsibility and critical thinking, something the Buddha always encouraged the listener to use appropriately.
May be it is a misuse of the word. My first language is not English and sorry for that.

I meant faith/believing/compliance by using the word surrender.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Eko Care,

Rather than construct elaborate and cringeworthy explanations for why some people don't find satisfaction in the commentaries or Abhidhamma, perhaps you might actually ask them their reasons why it is so?

But then, the very existence of this topic and the sectarian lies therein is ample evidence that you're not interested in what such people think and why... you just want them to stop being heretics, because independent thought and critical analysis is detrimental to the survival of your beloved Sri Lankan sectarianism. If that's what Sri Lankan sectarianism requires in order to survive then that's a pretty sad indictment of the intellectual and spiritual paucity within it.

Remember that according to tradition, a Buddhist takes refuge in the triple gem of the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. The worldliness of Sri Lankan sectarianism, its bizarre politics, and its penchant for evangelism are not part of the gem.

"From today onward I surrender myself to the Buddha... to the Dhamma... to the Sangha."
Ajja aadi.m katvaa aha.m attaana.m Buddhassa niyyaatemi Dhammassa Sanghassa'ti.

Do not mistake the inessential for the essential, and the essential for the inessential.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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SamD
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by SamD »

Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am I have(not seen but) heard this not only from one or two. It is generally believed by monks in the field. You can ask from your contacts and inquire before you believe.

It is said among the forest monks and related upasakas that Bhikkhu Nanananda had accepted Abhidhamma and Sabbannu concept before he die, during his last days of life.
This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am His teacher Ven. Maharaja rejected his views. Most of his peers did the same. One of his old student officially rejected him as the teacher.
Who is this Ven Maharaja? :shock:
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am Most of his student monks not follow him either and they haven't read his books at least upto outsiders did either. But the overseas people can hardly see or understand this.
These evil Suddas :rolleye: . These white folks will never understand our dhamma right... :rofl:
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Eko Care,
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:29 pm It indicates that Ven. Analayo had been advocating Bhikkhu Nanananda's views without knowing his other views, just because he found him attracted by part of the views of Bhikkhu Nanananda.

But the listeners of those sermons can't see the reality and they might try to defend themselves by saying " It's doesn't affect".
I think that there is too much second-guessing of the motivations and knowledge of others in this post, and various other posts on this thread (on both sides...).

I think that advice given here is worth considering:
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:03 pm It would be better to show how the commentaries are in agreement with the suttas rather than attack people in various ways for not believing them.
As is this, (though I personally would have phrased it more politely):
retrofuturist wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:22 pm Rather than construct elaborate and cringeworthy explanations for why some people don't find satisfaction in the commentaries or Abhidhamma, perhaps you might actually ask them their reasons why it is so?
However, if you want to participate here, you'll have to get used to rather direct arguments that may seem off-putting. That's how this particular Forum works.

Personally, I think that Ven Dhammanando does a great job of firmly presenting Commentarial points of view without being condescending or argumentative. You might study some of his posts, and consider how he manages to do that:
search.php?author_id=56&sr=posts

:heart:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sam,
SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
Thanks for confirming.

The lack of hiri and ottappa expressed by the OP for their lies and slander is disconcerting. In my tradition, Buddhadhamma, we are warned against being a liar...
MN 61 wrote:"Rahula, do you see this little bit of left-over water remaining in the water dipper?"

"Yes, sir."

"That's how little of a contemplative there is in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie."

Having tossed away the little bit of left-over water, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how this little bit of left-over water is tossed away?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is tossed away just like that."

Having turned the water dipper upside down, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how this water dipper is turned upside down?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is turned upside down just like that."

Having turned the water dipper right-side up, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how empty & hollow this water dipper is?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is empty & hollow just like that.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Eko Care
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Eko Care »

SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
I wish you to be able to comment again, maybe after some months, with more information, or doubts!

Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.
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Pondera
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Pondera »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 am
SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
I wish you to be able to comment after some months, with more information or doubts!

Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.
What?
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 am
SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
I wish you to be able to comment again, maybe after some months, with more information, or doubts!

Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.
What does that even mean? :shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Pondera
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Pondera »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:30 am Greetings,
Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 am
SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
I wish you to be able to comment again, maybe after some months, with more information, or doubts!

Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.

What does that even mean? :shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
:broke: that’s what I asked!

Something, something - don’t expect mental health if you disagree with the commentaries?

Just a guess :spy:
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by BrokenBones »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:30 am Greetings,
Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 am
SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
I wish you to be able to comment again, maybe after some months, with more information, or doubts!

Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.
What does that even mean? :shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
I think 🤔 it's another kammic threat... believe or be damned. Or it could just be a very confusing Google translation.
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Dilantha »

SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:22 am
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am I have(not seen but) heard this not only from one or two. It is generally believed by monks in the field. You can ask from your contacts and inquire before you believe.

It is said among the forest monks and related upasakas that Bhikkhu Nanananda had accepted Abhidhamma and Sabbannu concept before he die, during his last days of life.
This is obviously a lie.I've met venerable Nananada and last I met him was two weeks prior to his death. I've spoken with venerable Subhuthi who took care of him. I am in contact with couple of people who visit the Aranya on a weekly basis. His contemporary and disciple Ven. Dhammajeeva still relies heavily on Ven. Nananandas interpretations. This is the first time I am hearing this and I think it's safe to assume that OP is a propaganda post.
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am His teacher Ven. Maharaja rejected his views. Most of his peers did the same. One of his old student officially rejected him as the teacher.
Who is this Ven Maharaja? :shock:
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:56 am Most of his student monks not follow him either and they haven't read his books at least upto outsiders did either. But the overseas people can hardly see or understand this.
These evil Suddas :rolleye: . These white folks will never understand our dhamma right... :rofl:

I have a question which is not related to the topic. If I may? where is his monestary now. is it the same place as in Dewalegama where he used to stay arround 2011? I 've heard he moved to a different place. i dont know if that true. I met him in his monestary in 2011. I would like to visit the place if it's still functions.
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by SamD »

Dilantha wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:25 am I have a question which is not related to the topic. If I may? where is his monestary now. is it the same place as in Dewalegama where he used to stay arround 2011? I 've heard he moved to a different place. i dont know if that true. I met him in his monestary in 2011. I would like to visit the place if it's still functions.
Rev. Kaṭukurunde Ñāṇananda Sadaham Senasuna
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXGEo5DkwDG6xDQ1A
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Dilantha »

SamD wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:32 am
Dilantha wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:25 am I have a question which is not related to the topic. If I may? where is his monestary now. is it the same place as in Dewalegama where he used to stay arround 2011? I 've heard he moved to a different place. i dont know if that true. I met him in his monestary in 2011. I would like to visit the place if it's still functions.
Rev. Kaṭukurunde Ñāṇananda Sadaham Senasuna
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXGEo5DkwDG6xDQ1A
thank you very much Dhamma friend
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 am Until then anyone expecting mental health and being confident in anti-commentary views, better not to believe or
focus on those matters.
For the much part, the commentaries are not supramundane (lokuttara) and therefore cannot overcome suffering. To assert the commentaries result in mental health appears plainly false.

However, as posted to you many times now, you should post various commentary doctrines for discussion (rather than post unevidenced statements).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Eko Care
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Re: Bhikkhu Nanananda converted. Disciples did not.

Post by Eko Care »

Remember that according to tradition, a Buddhist takes refuge in the triple gem of the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. The worldliness of Sri Lankan sectarianism, its bizarre politics, and its penchant for evangelism are not part of the gem.

"From today onward I surrender myself to the Buddha... to the Dhamma... to the Sangha."
Some classical monks say that the above mentioned "Sangha" and Atthakata are not mutually exclusive.
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