Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Jgood
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Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Jgood »

An article that may be of interest to some of you: https://politicallyincorrectdharma.blog ... tatus.html
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by bodom »

Lately the best meditation I have had by far has been while doing walking meditation at night, outdoors, using AUM as a mantra every eighth step, after consuming approximately one tenth of a gram of relatively potent cannabis.
:thinking:

:anjali:
This is our foundation: to have sati, recollection, and sampajañña, self-awareness, whether standing, walking, sitting, or reclining. Whatever arises, just leave it be, don’t cling to it. Whether it’s like or dislike, happiness or suffering, doubt or certainty... Don’t try to label everything, just know it. See that all the things that arise in the mind are simply sensations. They are transient. They arise, exist and cease. That’s all there is to them, they have no self or being, they are neither ‘us’ nor ‘them’. None of them are worthy of clinging to.

- Ajahn Chah
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Eko Care
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Eko Care »

His reason given is,
I became a monk thirty years ago in order to strive for enlightenment in this very life, and that striving, from an orthodox Theravada Buddhist perspective especially, involves the cultivation of deep meditative states, and I have not really experienced for years anything like the kind of states I’m supposed to be cultivating…which suggests to me that maybe I should try something else.
Unfortunately he seems to be fixated in not being open to advice.
Some people who read this, the first on my list of reasons, might glibly offer advice like, “oh, you should find a better teacher,” or “oh, you must have been following a wrong method, and should go to X meditation center or follow the true teachings of venerable Y,” or “the commentaries say jhāna isn’t necessary.” But I have read it all and heard it all, and I have tried following the Pali texts as rightly as I could manage. I’ve tried plenty, and I am soon to try something radically different from sitting crosslegged in solitude and following ancient rules.
Anyway what do you think about his opinion below?
(Perhaps I should say with regard to that bit about jhāna being unnecessary that it may be true, although of course the Suttas place great emphasis on jhāna and actually emphasize it more than mindfulness meditation. But anyone who has reached a state of stillness, silence, and crystal clarity may know that just five minutes of it is worth years of grinding and struggling, and is far superior to a lifetime of counting breaths and labeling stray thoughts. After experiencing it it is damn near impossible to be satisfied with something that is far less.)
Do you think you know better than the ancient Sangha ?
classicaltheravada.wordpress.com
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robertk
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by robertk »

I enjoy his articles. Hope he continues to write as a layman.
GnosticMind
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

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Last edited by GnosticMind on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by GnosticMind »

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Last edited by GnosticMind on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Coëmgenu »

Melford Spiro has an interesting categorization of materialism that he inherits from J.H. Bateson on page 7 of the second link.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
GnosticMind
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by GnosticMind »

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Last edited by GnosticMind on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jgood
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Jgood »

GnosticMind wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:57 pm I posted the following on another thread, but it's highly relevant here --

Melford Spiro has done decades of detailed research into psychological, subconscious motivations for ordaining and disrobing -- a Japanese Zen monk who re-ordained in the Burmese tradition strongly recommended it to me nearly 30 years ago, when I was studying Mahāsī Sayādaw Vipassana practice in a Burmese forest mountain monastery -- the Japanese monk, a very honest, if highly strung man, told me it was THE book to read if I wanted to understand Theravada, and indeed, it transformed the way I saw the Sangha and Buddhist soteriology --

I can't recommend it highly enough, though it can be challenging reading -- too much truth about the psychology and subconscious motivations behind ordination, Buddhist lay and ordained practice and lifestyle , culture and society and civilisation -- a very controversial, uncomfortable, brilliant book --

https://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Society ... 0520046722

And a sample here --

https://content.ucpress.edu/title/97805 ... hapone.pdf

and more --

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 6A4C779369
Thanks, I'll add this one to my list.
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by GnosticMind »

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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by DNS »

Just curious, what will he do for a living? Rent, food, bills still have to be paid. If his plan is to be a lay Dhamma teacher; that doesn't pay very well, unless one is a charismatic speaker and mixes in some New Age and woo woo, then there is potential to make a decent income.
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:16 pm Unfortunately he seems to be fixated in not being open to advice.
It is easy for puthujjana that know nothing of the Noble Path to criticize this man. He is an honest man and said quite openly in a video a few months ago about himself that he cannot enter or deal well with Emptiness (Sunnata).

Buddhism is replete with evangelists who have no idea what it is for the ego or self to dissolve. Our world of 7 billion, as the Buddha taught in SN 12.44, has arisen from craving & ego-becoming. Dissolving ego is not so easy. No amount of "advice" can dissolve the ego of a mind that is not capable.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by dharmacorps »

DNS wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:41 pm Just curious, what will he do for a living? Rent, food, bills still have to be paid. If his plan is to be a lay Dhamma teacher; that doesn't pay very well, unless one is a charismatic speaker and mixes in some New Age and woo woo, then there is potential to make a decent income.
I thought this too after I read it. Aside from spiritual considerations, 30 years as a monk makes it hard to get a job when you disrobe at least in the West. It isn't a great resume builder and you now have to look after yourself in your dotage with no savings for retirement and a garauntee you'd have to work till you die, basically.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Ajahn Pannobhasa is disrobing

Post by Ceisiwr »

dharmacorps wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:42 pm
DNS wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:41 pm Just curious, what will he do for a living? Rent, food, bills still have to be paid. If his plan is to be a lay Dhamma teacher; that doesn't pay very well, unless one is a charismatic speaker and mixes in some New Age and woo woo, then there is potential to make a decent income.
I thought this too after I read it. Aside from spiritual considerations, 30 years as a monk makes it hard to get a job when you disrobe at least in the West. It isn't a great resume builder and you now have to look after yourself in your dotage with no savings for retirement and a garauntee you'd have to work till you die, basically.
Unless his family has money of course and are willing to help him out. Even better if there is a family owned business. If not then yeah, it will be rough going.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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