Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
BrokenBones
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by BrokenBones »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:37 am
BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:31 am
4GreatHeavenlyKings wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:06 am Is he alleged to be a crypto-Catholic?

Not that the other allegations are not serious as well, of course.
We don't know... it's just Sri Lankan sangha/political tittle tattle... unless there is any evidence?

How is a refusal to accept Abhidhamma a 'serious' allegation?

The Buddha specifically asked his disciples to follow the suttas and vinaya.

There are many monks who don't accept Abhidhamma... even more who accept it without ever reading it or even the suttas(maybe one or two suttas at best)... the Visuddhimagga is their book of choice.

Should they no longer be regarded as Theravāda monks?
According to what Venerable Buddhaghosa wrote in The Expositor those monks who question the authority of the Abhidhamma should expelled, if I remember correctly.
So he directly contradicts the Buddha... it's a theme.

"Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ānanda, “Now, if the thought occurs to any of you—‘The teaching has lost its arbitrator; we are without a Teacher’—do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher after my passing."

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN16.html

The Abhidhamma was not in existence at the time of the Buddha's passing nor recited at the First Council.

That leaves the suttas as the 'Dhamma'.

I see no offence in any monk rejecting later teachings.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by Ceisiwr »

BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:48 am
So he directly contradicts the Buddha... it's a theme.

"Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ānanda, “Now, if the thought occurs to any of you—‘The teaching has lost its arbitrator; we are without a Teacher’—do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher after my passing."

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN16.html

The Abhidhamma was not in existence at the time of the Buddha's passing nor recited at the First Council.

That leaves the suttas as the 'Dhamma'.

I see no offence in any monk rejecting later teachings.
In terms of Theravada it was in existence back then. Even if it was not, there is nothing in the Abhidhamma which contradicts the Dhamma.
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But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


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SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:48 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:37 am
BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:31 am

We don't know... it's just Sri Lankan sangha/political tittle tattle... unless there is any evidence?

How is a refusal to accept Abhidhamma a 'serious' allegation?

The Buddha specifically asked his disciples to follow the suttas and vinaya.

There are many monks who don't accept Abhidhamma... even more who accept it without ever reading it or even the suttas(maybe one or two suttas at best)... the Visuddhimagga is their book of choice.

Should they no longer be regarded as Theravāda monks?
According to what Venerable Buddhaghosa wrote in The Expositor those monks who question the authority of the Abhidhamma should expelled, if I remember correctly.
So he directly contradicts the Buddha... it's a theme.

"Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ānanda, “Now, if the thought occurs to any of you—‘The teaching has lost its arbitrator; we are without a Teacher’—do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher after my passing."

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN16.html

The Abhidhamma was not in existence at the time of the Buddha's passing nor recited at the First Council.

That leaves the suttas as the 'Dhamma'.

I see no offence in any monk rejecting later teachings.
It is called Tipitaka not Dupitaka.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

I also do not agree that he has removed Sri Lankan funeral ceromanies from his sect.
Sri Lankan people visit a temple or give Dana (food) for a monk mainly on funeral related matters.
If you stop this the monks will be completely disconnected from the people in villages and will be starving to death.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BrokenBones
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by BrokenBones »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:39 am I also do not agree that he has removed Sri Lankan funeral ceromanies from his sect.
Sri Lankan people visit a temple or give Dana (food) for a monk mainly on funeral related matters.
If you stop this the monks will be completely disconnected from the people in villages and will be starving to death.
If they only go for funeral rites, I can understand the Venerable discontinuing them. If they want elaborate funeral rites then maybe they're better off going to the Catholic Church.

And the Buddha did not teach three baskets... did you not read the sutta I quoted?

Giving it a cool name like Tipitaka doesn't convince me.
SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:18 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:39 am I also do not agree that he has removed Sri Lankan funeral ceromanies from his sect.
Sri Lankan people visit a temple or give Dana (food) for a monk mainly on funeral related matters.
If you stop this the monks will be completely disconnected from the people in villages and will be starving to death.
If they only go for funeral rites, I can understand the Venerable discontinuing them. If they want elaborate funeral rites then maybe they're better off going to the Catholic Church.

And the Buddha did not teach three baskets... did you not read the sutta I quoted?

Giving it a cool name like Tipitaka doesn't convince me.
What this monk is doing is breaking the support network for the monks.
Death contemplation is a major ritual among Sri Lankan Buddhist.
That also a therapy for the survivors.
You have to be a Sri Lankan Buddhist (not converted) to understand this.
In Western terms it is like you are not going to funeral of a very close person.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BrokenBones
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by BrokenBones »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:41 am
BrokenBones wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:18 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:39 am I also do not agree that he has removed Sri Lankan funeral ceromanies from his sect.
Sri Lankan people visit a temple or give Dana (food) for a monk mainly on funeral related matters.
If you stop this the monks will be completely disconnected from the people in villages and will be starving to death.
If they only go for funeral rites, I can understand the Venerable discontinuing them. If they want elaborate funeral rites then maybe they're better off going to the Catholic Church.

And the Buddha did not teach three baskets... did you not read the sutta I quoted?

Giving it a cool name like Tipitaka doesn't convince me.
What this monk is doing is breaking the support network for the monks.
Death contemplation is a major ritual among Sri Lankan Buddhist.
That also a therapy for the survivors.
You have to be a Sri Lankan Buddhist (not converted) to understand this.
In Western terms it is like you are not going to funeral of a very close person.
The support network for monks is dana in return the monks give teachings or set an example for laypeople to admire, learn and obviously make merit... not muttering blessings and performing rituals and rites for a superstitious public.

I quite like the transference of merit but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying... you seem to be talking about some sort of rites performed over a dead body... is this right?

Death rites are not death contemplation.

Your comment about Sri Lankan and westerners is the sort of cultural nonsense that has infiltrated Buddhism since his parinibbana and is quite insulting.
SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

muttering blessings and performing rituals and rites for a superstitious public.

I quite like the transference of merit but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying... you seem to be talking about some sort of rites performed over a dead body... is this right?
:rofl:
I rest my case with you.
I have not watched the following video but you will have some idea of a Sri Lankan funeral.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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retrofuturist
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Sounds like gossip and aversion.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

I have concerns about this monk for some time and I have stopped watching his dhamma talks.
Once he said that the devil goes to the woman's womb via her private part or words to that effect.
He also believe that people can't attain enlightenment in this life and encourage people to do wholesome actions so they can go to Brahama worlds.
This is sometime back and I can't support it with evidence.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BrokenBones
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by BrokenBones »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:48 am I have concerns about this monk for some time and I have stopped watching his dhamma talks.
Once he said that the devil goes to the woman's womb via her private part or words to that effect.
He also believe that people can't attain enlightenment in this life and encourage people to do wholesome actions so they can go to Brahama worlds.
This is sometime back and I can't support it with evidence.
So it's just gossip & aversion... tittle tattle.

If you could provide some sort of evidence of this Venerable committing some sort of heinous heresy then I would definitely take you seriously... but you just keep repeating that you don't like him and he doesn't seem to jump when told to by popular cultural opinion.
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by arkaprava »

Are the Sri Lankan Buddhists hyper nationalists, like the Hindu nationalists currently in India ?
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
arkaprava wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:00 am Are the Sri Lankan Buddhists hyper nationalists, like the Hindu nationalists currently in India ?
If you mean is there more of a commitment to "Sri Lankan Buddhism" than there is to Buddhavacana, then from what I've discerned to date, the answer would be Yes.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
SarathW
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by SarathW »

arkaprava wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:00 am Are the Sri Lankan Buddhists hyper nationalists, like the Hindu nationalists currently in India ?
There are many monks who teaches the wrong Dhamma.
Specially now with the development of social media they are gathering huge crowds.
However there is a counter social media movement against those rogue monks.
Sri Lanka is a melting hot spot at the moment.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BKh
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Re: Keep away from Mahamuna sect in Sri Lanka?

Post by BKh »

People have been making crazy accusations for as long as this monk has been popular. If you are not aware how stagnant the popular religion has become in Sri Lanka, it's hard to imagine what a threat to the establishment he is. If he doesn't do enough traditional things they accuse him of rejecting Sri Lankan culture. If he does lots of them, they say that he is adding things from Catholicism. It's absurd. His parents converted to Buddhism when he was a child. He was not raised as a Catholic. Accusing a monk of being a closet Catholic is just one more way to criticize him when you don't have any legitimate points of argument. If it were legitimate, people would be pointing out specific things rather than making wild accusations.

His monks still participate in funeral activities. (don't know about during covid) And to say that he is cutting people off from the sangha? Have you ever actually visited one of his monasteries? They are full of lay people. People who have never been so connected to the Sangha. So get ready to criticize him for having too many people visiting the monastery.

He does not reject any Abhidhamma that is not in conflict with the suttas, as far as I know. And just because he (or anyone else) doesn't frequently make use of certain texts doesn't mean they reject them. The first four nikayas and the first nine books of the KN has plenty of material to help people practice Dhamma.
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