Self-defeating behaviour

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Feathers
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Self-defeating behaviour

Post by Feathers »

Alright, I realise I'm in one of the few online communities where 'self-defeating' is a good thing, but bear with me :tongue:

There's this pattern I have, and I want to give a couple of examples:

- I rarely drink alcohol
- I decide to keep the 5 precepts, which includes NO alcohol
- suddenly, not having a glass of wine with dinner is REALLY hard to resist. I mean massive craving, which I have never felt for alcohol before

Conversely:

- I tried metta meditation out of curiosity
- I enjoyed it and found it beneficial
- I decided I wanted to do it regularly
- suddenly I have massive resistance to doing it, now that I 'should' do it daily

In the first instance, we have something that should have been easy to refrain from doing - something I already rarely did, and could see lots of good reasons not to do. And in the second, something I genuinely want to do, enjoy doing, but can't bring myself to do now that it's something I'm actually aiming to do.

It doesn't just happen with Buddhism-related stuff. I know my day will be more productive if I get straight in the shower and dressed as soon as I wake up, rather than breakfast in my pyjamas. Can I do it? Can I . . .

I really want to develop my programming skills. Not only would it be good for my job, it's something I genuinely enjoy, and on the rare day when I do bring myself to sit down and spend a couple of hours working on one of my projects, I really enjoy the time, and I feel a lot of satisfaction with what I accomplish. But because it's something I 'should' do (it's good for me, I learn useful stuff etc.) I have a massive resistance to doing it.

I'm not talking procrastinating chores here - putting off tidying up is a fairly normal impulse I think! I'm talking about behaviour and urges that go against what I genuinely want and enjoy.

Does anyone have any insight, any advice, any book recommendations . . . ?
culaavuso
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Self-defeating behaviour

Post by culaavuso »

Feathers wrote:I'm talking about behaviour and urges that go against what I genuinely want and enjoy.
MN 20: Vitakka­saṇṭhāna Sutta explains five methods for the removal of distracting thoughts, which may all be helpful in various circumstances. There are also some helpful additional details in the commentary.

One example of helpful details found in the commentary would be the recommendations for specific applications of the first of the five methods to remove particular categories of distracting thoughts:
The Commentary to the Discourse on the Removal of Distracting Thoughts wrote: He should... reflect on a different object which is connected with skill: aññam nimittam manasikatabbam kusalupasamhitam means: an object different from the adventitious object, and one which is connected with skill, should be reflected on.

Here the explanation of the term "different object" is as follows: When a thought connected with desire for living beings, arises, the development of the idea of the unlovely (asubha bhavana) is a different object, and when a thought connected on with desire for inanimate things arises, the reflection on impermanence (anicca manasikara) is a different object.

When a thought connected with hate towards living beings arises, the development of the idea of friendliness (metta bhavana) is a different object and when a thought connected with hate for inanimate things arises, the reflection on the modes of materiality (dhatu manasikara) is a different object.

Wheresoever, a thought connected with delusion concerning living beings or things arises, the fivefold reliance associated with the doctrine (pañca dhammupanissayo) is the different object.
Feathers
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Self-defeating behaviour

Post by Feathers »

Thanks, that's an interesting read, but I'm not totally sure it applies to everything here. Perhaps to resisting the unhelpful urges. I don't mean that I try to do stuff and get distracted - I mean I can't even bring myself to try. And it's all more on the level of feelings than of thoughts.
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phil
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Self-defeating behaviour

Post by phil »

Hi there

I don't know if this sort of thing works for you, but the other day someone posted about the armies of Mara and I found it helpful.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/Pan ... /mara.html

As you probably know Mara is not the devil in the sense of being a force of evil, but a symbol of the various forces/degilements that don't want us to be free, that want to hold us back in our craving and clinging. Seeing those forces as mental factors that come and go due to conditions that are beyond your control in a sense can help, you can see them arising, recognize them and they lose their power in that way. But it's definitely a gradual process but it's interesting isn't it? Just the fact that you have turned to the Buddha's teaching to find support and guidance is something to feel very joyous about, at times. At other times there will be boredom and indifference about it. It's really beyond our control, I think. Good luck. And don't forget that eating breakfast in your pajamas is better than eating breakfast on the floor, nude, like a dog. I'm still working on that one. :jumping:
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
philosopher
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:48 pm

Re: Self-defeating behaviour

Post by philosopher »

Feathers wrote:Alright, I realise I'm in one of the few online communities where 'self-defeating' is a good thing, but bear with me :tongue:

There's this pattern I have, and I want to give a couple of examples:

- I rarely drink alcohol
- I decide to keep the 5 precepts, which includes NO alcohol
- suddenly, not having a glass of wine with dinner is REALLY hard to resist. I mean massive craving, which I have never felt for alcohol before

Conversely:

- I tried metta meditation out of curiosity
- I enjoyed it and found it beneficial
- I decided I wanted to do it regularly
- suddenly I have massive resistance to doing it, now that I 'should' do it daily

In the first instance, we have something that should have been easy to refrain from doing - something I already rarely did, and could see lots of good reasons not to do. And in the second, something I genuinely want to do, enjoy doing, but can't bring myself to do now that it's something I'm actually aiming to do.

It doesn't just happen with Buddhism-related stuff. I know my day will be more productive if I get straight in the shower and dressed as soon as I wake up, rather than breakfast in my pyjamas. Can I do it? Can I . . .

I really want to develop my programming skills. Not only would it be good for my job, it's something I genuinely enjoy, and on the rare day when I do bring myself to sit down and spend a couple of hours working on one of my projects, I really enjoy the time, and I feel a lot of satisfaction with what I accomplish. But because it's something I 'should' do (it's good for me, I learn useful stuff etc.) I have a massive resistance to doing it.

I'm not talking procrastinating chores here - putting off tidying up is a fairly normal impulse I think! I'm talking about behaviour and urges that go against what I genuinely want and enjoy.

Does anyone have any insight, any advice, any book recommendations . . . ?
Can you see if you can become a bit more precise about the thoughts you're having around the particular issue? Perhaps note the moods, thoughts, etc. you have when thinking about continuing with something you've resolved to do. I feel like at this point there may be too little information for you to really discern the underlying issue, i.e. cause of resistance / conflict. :anjali:
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