How many calories a day for monks?

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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

DNS wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:13 pm About half of Thailand's monks are overweight.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... overweight

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This is sad
I wonder if they read the suttas. Lord Buddha talks exhaustively about moderation in food, even more than many other things that some commentators unnecessarily emphasize.

Just by eating moderately you are preventing one of the 5 hindrances, sloth and torpor; and therefore, not allowing other hindrances to invade the mind, at least from the foothold of drowsiness.

Some people think Lord Buddha talked about moderation in food and eating before noon only for being convenient to the laity, but this is not true. Quoting Kitagiri Sutta:
"And haven't you understood me to teach the Dhamma in this way: 'For someone feeling a pleasant feeling of this sort, unskillful qualities grow and skillful qualities decrease. But there is the case where, for someone feeling a pleasant feeling of that sort, unskillful qualities decrease and skillful qualities grow. For someone feeling a painful feeling of this sort, unskillful qualities grow and skillful qualities decrease. But there is the case where, for someone feeling a painful feeling of that sort, unskillful qualities decrease and skillful qualities grow. For someone feeling a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling of this sort, unskillful qualities grow and skillful qualities decrease. But there is the case where, for someone feeling a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling of that sort, unskillful qualities decrease and skillful qualities grow.'"
This sutta is very important for showing that feelings are not the point, but the skillfulness carried by them. It is clear we should select pleasant feelings that make our skillful qualities grow, not decrease.
This sutta is also a response to the Jains, who think inflicting pain in themselves will do some good... errr
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
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See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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DNS
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by DNS »

lostitude wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:53 am
DNS wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:26 pm For those who are completely sedentary, you only need about your body weight in pounds times 10, so for a 150 lb. person, that would be only 1500 calories. Any more than that would result in weight gain, which could be why there are so many overweight monks.
This sounds extremely low.
It's actually not, at least that's what I've discovered from my readings and my own personal observations and trial-and-error. You can try it out yourself. And this is why there are so many overweight and obese people in the world, because they think they need a certain amount of calories, typically several thousands. I think it is around 30% of Americans who are not just overweight, but obese.

However, if you do some exercise, especially some vigorous exercise (or physical work), then yes, the number of calories allotted could go up.

edit: just looked it up, holy crap! it's 42.7% of Americans who are obese
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Last edited by DNS on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added correct percentage of obese Americans
lostitude
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by lostitude »

DNS wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:58 pm
It's actually not, at least that's what I've discovered from my readings and my own personal observations and trial-and-error.
I don’t know what your readings have been, but my guess is that your personal observations are just that of an unusually low metabolic rate due to either less muscle mass than average or a history of calorie restriction or a bit of both. This certainly can’t be generalized to the overall population. Your picture seems to reveal an elegantly lean man testifying to his diet, but I’m pretty certain that you would never be able to maintain a more bulky muscle mass on such a low intake.
This is coupled with the fact that you need a certain amount of minerals (notably calcium) and vitamins which are notoriously hard to obtain in sufficient amounts from a 1500kcal diet. That’s simply not enough food to cover the range of nutrients you need in the quantities you need each one of them to stay optimally healthy (of course, whether one must always aim for optimal health and longevity is another debate...).

You can try it out yourself.
As a dietitian I’ve seen this tried a lot, with mostly negative consequences. Hence my misgivings.
And this is why there are so many overweight and obese people in the world, because they think they need a certain amount of calories, typically several thousands. I think it is around 30% of Americans who are not just overweight, but obese.
Overweight certainly cannot be explained away by saying people eat too much, especially when "too much" refers to a perfectly normal intake of around 2000 kcal. First of all, most overweight Americans eat a lot more than 2000 kcal a day. Americans eat on average 3600 kcal per day according to the FAO (which makes Americans the biggest eaters in the world, topping the FAO list). And this average figure factors in small eaters like you, so imagine what the actual numbers are for those at the other end of the spectrum. Secondly, it is now widely accepted that other major factors for obesity are related to hormonal imbalances, environmental exposure to pollutants, and gut microbiome.
In my country where overweight prevalence is very, very far from the US figures, the officially recommended intake is around 2000 kcal for women and 2300 kcal for men with average physical activity.
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by DNS »

You misread my post. I said 1500 calories is for someone who is 150 lbs (68 kg) and very sedentary. I mentioned I eat about 1500 to 2000 calories as I do exercise everyday.
lostitude wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm In my country where overweight prevalence is very, very far from the US figures, the officially recommended intake is around 2000 kcal for women and 2300 kcal for men with average physical activity.
Yes, this is about the amount I eat.
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by lostitude »

DNS wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:00 pm You misread my post. I said 1500 calories is for someone who is 150 lbs (68 kg) and very sedentary. I mentioned I eat about 1500 to 2000 calories as I do exercise everyday.
lostitude wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:41 pm In my country where overweight prevalence is very, very far from the US figures, the officially recommended intake is around 2000 kcal for women and 2300 kcal for men with average physical activity.
Yes, this is about the amount I eat.
Sorry for the confusion. Everything I wrote concerning the risks associated with too low an intake then applies to the 1500 kcal intake of a 68kg person (even very sedentary), not to you. 1500 kcal would probably be this person’s BMR (their BMR could even be higher than this). The simple action of eating, digesting and assimilating food burns a significant amount of calories (more than 10% of the calories ingested), so even a person lying all day long and being spoon-fed would need more than their BMR to maintain their weight. Let alone someone who sits up, stands up, shuffles around his room and so on.
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by DNS »

I just found this cool site, calculates your BMR and how many calories you should eat based on your age, height, and exercise level:
https://www.calculator.net/bmr-calculator.html

Here are my results:
Result
BMR = 1,337 Calories/day

Daily calorie needs based on activity level
Activity Level Calorie
Sedentary: little or no exercise 1,604
Exercise 1-3 times/week 1,838
Exercise 4-5 times/week 1,958
Daily exercise or intense exercise 3-4 times/week 2,072
Intense exercise 6-7 times/week 2,306
Very intense exercise daily, or physical job 2,539
So it turns out I am consuming about the correct amount at about 2000 calories since I do daily exercise.
lostitude
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by lostitude »

Nice tool ! Here are mine:
BMR = 1,705 Calories/day

Daily calorie needs based on activity level
Activity Level Calorie
Sedentary: little or no exercise 2,046
Exercise 1-3 times/week 2,344
Exercise 4-5 times/week 2,498
Daily exercise or intense exercise 3-4 times/week 2,643
Intense exercise 6-7 times/week 2,941
Very intense exercise daily, or physical job 3,240
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No_Mind
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by No_Mind »

lostitude wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:46 am
No_Mind wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:54 pm Monks are on a OMAD (one meal a day) diet.

While on this regime they sometimes perform extremely strenuous work - building monasteries, walking long distances etc. They also study.

How many calories a day do they consume?

From YouTube videos it does not appear that they get more than 2 cups of glutinous rice (200 cal), one cup lentil soup (100 calories), a piece of meat protein (200 calories), one egg (70 calories) and maybe some fruits (say 300 calories at most).

Add on four cups of (sugar and no-milk) tea (150 calories) it barely touches 1000 calories.

How correct is my assumption?
I think you are forgetting all the oils, sauces and fats that come along with the rice, lentil soup and meat. Fat is about twice as calorie-rich as starch.
My opinion was based on videos such as these. There are several similar videos on YT.

I understand that many city-based monks might be having a rich diet but unable to understand how this monk, and others like him, gets enough calories to function.



:namaste:
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by lostitude »

No_Mind wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:58 am
I understand that many city-based monks might be having a rich diet but unable to understand how this monk, and others like him, gets enough calories to function.
Based on what this video shows us, I don’t understand either. Clearly this monk is pretty active physically, he walks quite a bit for his alms-round, does significant house chores, which adds up to probably more exercise than many lay Westerners. I don’t think that what is captured in the video when he takes food out of his bowl is the whole story.
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by DNS »

lostitude wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:32 pm
No_Mind wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:58 am
I understand that many city-based monks might be having a rich diet but unable to understand how this monk, and others like him, gets enough calories to function.
Based on what this video shows us, I don’t understand either. Clearly this monk is pretty active physically, he walks quite a bit for his alms-round, does significant house chores, which adds up to probably more exercise than many lay Westerners. I don’t think that what is captured in the video when he takes food out of his bowl is the whole story.
I agree, it is a 16 minute video so it can't show every detail in the monk's activities. You see him taking food out and eating some and then the next scene is him washing his bowl. I don't think it showed the full meal. For example, the video also didn't show any conversations he may have had with other monks or the teacher/abbot.
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Re: How many calories a day for monks?

Post by dicsoncandra »

Ah looks like I'm doing it wrong... I started eating once a day but with my usual portion which isn't much to begin with (I lost weight really quickly).. today's breakfast was perhaps 200 calories or so :strawman:
arising is manifest;
ceasing is manifest;
change-while-standing is manifest.

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