The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

[Kim OHara]

All I was trying to do was to remind you - yes, just you, DD, not "Buddhist forums" - that most lay Buddhists do in fact drink alcohol pretty regularly, in spite of the Precepts. (Most lay Christians steal, too, and covet, and break others of the Commandments, and many Muslims also drink alcohol, and Jews eat pork.)
Deal with it.


Kim

[Dhamma Chameleon]

Sounds like your own ideas. It appears a practicing Buddhist or "lay follower" takes the precepts. What would it mean for a lay follower to take the Triple Refuge but not follow the 5 precepts, particularly the Dhamma refuge? Why would a Buddhist lay follower follow a course of action that leads to hell?

Not my own idea, but Ajahn Thanissaro's

The Buddha was not the sort of person who simply saddled you with commandments about what you should and shouldn't do. Instead, he placed a condition on his shoulds. He said that if you want true happiness, this is what you need to do, based on how cause and effect work. The duties he teaches are the duties in the four noble truths: to comprehend suffering, to abandon its cause, to realize the cessation, and to develop the path to that cessation. These are friendly duties because they aim at your genuine happiness.

I have taken 4 precepts and as far as I'm aware this is perfectly acceptable for a lay follower. In fact it's better not to take a precept you know you will break, than to take it and then break it.

[SteRo]

The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance.
Are these claims sounds valid?

It seems you are interested in things that are not buddhist. Hindu gurus and their teachings, drugs ... why is this? Ever considered right speech and right topics of conversation according to theravada doctrine? Just asking, I don't mind.

[Dhamma Chameleon]

Medicines that are non addictive and non-habit forming should not be made illegal by governments or prohibited by religious doctrine.

Per Dr. Gabor Mate's in the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts book, addiction is a behaviour, it's not about the substance at all (e.g. how many people get morphine in hospital without becoming addicted? And how many people are 'addicted' to their mobile phones, or music, or the news cycle?) So banning substances for that reason is kinda misguided to start with.

[SteRo]

Per Dr. Gabor Mate's in the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts book, addiction is a behaviour, it's not about the substance at all (e.g. how many people get morphine in hospital without becoming addicted? And how many people are 'addicted' to their mobile phones, or music, or the news cycle?) So banning substances for that reason is kinda misguided to start with.

If substances prove to be especially seductive in terms of addictive behaviour and undermine physical and/or mental health then it is ok to bann them. It's a matter of public health.

[Spiny Norman]

If substances prove to be especially seductive in terms of addictive behaviour and undermine physical and/or mental health then it is ok to bann them. It's a matter of public health.

Good point. So why haven't alcohol and tobacco been widely banned?

[SteRo]

If substances prove to be especially seductive in terms of addictive behaviour and undermine physical and/or mental health then it is ok to bann them. It's a matter of public health.

Good point. So why haven't alcohol and tobacco been widely banned?

You are asking an appropriate question. I don't think that regulation follows the principle that I have expressed.

[Spiny Norman]

It's a valid method of spiritual exploration, but it's not the way of the Buddha.

[SteRo]

It's a valid method of spiritual exploration, but it's not the way of the Buddha.

At least it's an exploration of the impact of materiality on mentality with added-on materiality.

[Spiny Norman]

All I was trying to do was to remind you - yes, just you, DD, not "Buddhist forums" - that most lay Buddhists do in fact drink alcohol pretty regularly, in spite of the Precepts. (Most lay Christians steal, too, and covet, and break others of the Commandments, and many Muslims also drink alcohol, and Jews eat pork.)
Deal with it.


Kim

I despair at the pretentious moral posturings of some "Protestant" Theravadans.

I'm fortunate in having some Pagan friends to keep things in perspective.

[SarathW]

The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance.
Are these claims sounds valid?

It seems you are interested in things that are not buddhist. Hindu gurus and their teachings, drugs ... why is this? Ever considered right speech and right topics of conversation according to theravada doctrine? Just asking, I don't mind.

I posted this on Wellness and Diet forum.
It is good to see people discussing this in a Buddhist perspective.

[DooDoot]

Thanissaro's

Thanissaro is not the Buddha and has a strong history of being confused about the teachings. It is irrelevant whether people follow the precepts or not. What is relevant is not following the precepts leads to hell.

I posted this on Wellness and Diet forum.
It is good to see people discussing this in a Buddhist perspective.

This topic is not related to "wellness" & "diet" and is much worse than killing a bee.

All I was trying to do was to remind you - that most lay Buddhists do in fact drink alcohol pretty regularly,

I was trying to remind you the suttas say drinking alcohol pretty regularly leads to hell.

"Identitarianism" does not prevent rebirth in hell.

[Kim OHara]

Thanissaro's

Thanissaro is not the Buddha and has a strong history of being confused about the teachings. It is irrelevant whether people follow the precepts or not. What is relevant is not following the precepts leads to hell.

Okaaaay... so, so far, you know better than one of the mostly highly respected Theravadin bhikkhus, and you don't care whether people wander around slaughtering others at random.
Would you prefer to be a slaughterer or a slaughteree?

...

All I was trying to do was to remind you - that most lay Buddhists do in fact drink alcohol pretty regularly,

I was trying to remind you the suttas say drinking alcohol pretty regularly leads to hell.

Oh, I've known that for years. Nor do I think that drinking a lot of alcohol is a good idea. But when you say that lay Buddhists don't drink the stuff, you are either lying or you are woefully misinformed. Lying is against the precepts (so I'm sure you wouldn't do that) so I thought I should do something about your neglected education.

"Identitarianism" does not prevent rebirth in hell.

I suspect it actually increases one's chances of an unhappy rebirth but I would be very pleased (and even more surprised, tbh) if you could find a sutta supporting that statement.


Kim

[DooDoot]

Okaaaay... so, so far, you know better than one of the mostly highly respected Theravadin bhikkhus...

again, despite the fact, more identitarianism

if Thanissaro was highly respected then Sujato would not have needed to censure his wrong views and we would not be required to fix his many errors

so I thought I should do something about your neglected education.

it appears only a non-Buddhist would make the above remark about one as learned as my good self

But when you say that lay Buddhists don't drink the stuff, you are either lying or you are woefully misinformed

i recall saying "practising Buddhists"... no point a habitual liar calling honest folks liars

also, you are contradicting yourself again. if a practising buddhist can drink then a practising buddhist can lie & kill, according to your ideas

[Kim OHara]

... if a practising buddhist can drink then a practising buddhist can lie & kill, according to your ideas

Many do.

And that is also part of the point I was trying to make before, which is that the real world is much messier and ...looser... than you seem to believe.
Why do I bother trying to make you see it? Because your blinkers get in the way of your own progress and (more importantly) because they lead you into misleading and obstructing others.


Kim