The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
SarathW
Posts: 21226
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by SarathW »

The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance.
Are these claims sounds valid?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Sam Vara »

They don't look like valid claims to me, firstly because I have known frequent users of psilocybin mushrooms and they did not seem any mentally healthier than average - in one case, quite the reverse. And secondly, because this video is full of hyperbole. My guess is that it is aimed at current psilocybin users (note the graphics!) and designed to reassure them and remind them of the interest and excitement in taking them.
nmjojola
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:29 am

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by nmjojola »

Both a long time dhamma practitioner and much experienced psilocybin user here. I could go on and on about the positive effects of the mushroom, which there unquestionably are, however, only the dhamma can solve the problem of suffering, period. There is some overlap between possible states/perceptions attainable in psychedelic experiences and jhana/samadhi factors (although in the former they are accidental and not understood, whereas in the latter they are attained by skill and understood); however wisdom, insight, discernment, can only come from the dhamma, without which you can't find the end of suffering.
So technically the video's opening premise is wrong, psilocybin can only treat the symptoms, albiet they do it much better than pharmaceuticals - only dhamma solves the root problem, though it is less accessible than mushrooms for anyone can eat them, whereas the dhamma first demands patience and intelligence of a person.
User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5584
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Kim OHara »

nmjojola wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:30 pm ...they do it much better than pharmaceuticals ...
... for some people.
:thinking:
Having some kind of support group is very desirable.

Other than that,
:goodpost:

:namaste:
Kim
SarathW
Posts: 21226
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by SarathW »

nmjojola wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:30 pm Both a long time dhamma practitioner and much experienced psilocybin user here. I could go on and on about the positive effects of the mushroom, which there unquestionably are, however, only the dhamma can solve the problem of suffering, period. There is some overlap between possible states/perceptions attainable in psychedelic experiences and jhana/samadhi factors (although in the former they are accidental and not understood, whereas in the latter they are attained by skill and understood); however wisdom, insight, discernment, can only come from the dhamma, without which you can't find the end of suffering.
So technically the video's opening premise is wrong, psilocybin can only treat the symptoms, albiet they do it much better than pharmaceuticals - only dhamma solves the root problem, though it is less accessible than mushrooms for anyone can eat them, whereas the dhamma first demands patience and intelligence of a person.
:goodpost:
though it is less accessible than mushrooms for anyone can eat them, whereas the dhamma first demands patience and intelligence of a person.
Is Dhamma easier to access?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:11 pm Are these claims sounds valid?
We cannot know. But we do know for sure is the Buddha prohibited taking such substances. Such karma is far worse than killing a terrorist bee.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Almost all monks I've talked with about drugs, said they had taken mushrooms or LSD in lay life. Maybe 80% of monks I've known.
And all of them have renounced any kind of psychedelic drug now.

It's a valid method of spiritual exploration, but it's not the way of the Buddha.
Inedible
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:55 am
Location: Iowa City

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Inedible »

Dhamma is vastly more accessible to me than shrooms. Also, it is dangerous to eat wild mushrooms unless you really know what you are doing.
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3071
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Pondera »

There are indications that psilocin (which is what psilocybin breaks down to in the body) has good binding properties at Serotonin receptor sites in the brain.

Which is why they can help anxiety and depression in small “micro doses” (like 0.1 grams).

I’ve already mentioned this - but the overall “euphoria” of taking a recreational dose of magic mushrooms boils down to the concept that “everything is connected and everything is one”.

This is because (on a neurological level) your brain is making more connections on the drug than it would in everyday life.

The “emptiness of phenomenon” experience can be amplified by psilocybin. And you can also have a bad trip and go temporarily psychotic.

The high of the mushroom is a temporary phenomenon that cannot replace the philosophy and teachings of the Buddha.

But the medicinal effects of this life form puts it in the category of “medication” rather than illicit drug. The Buddha did not restrict his followers from using medication.

But then again “mental illness” in his day was a by product of certain wrong wisdom, certain wrong morals, and certain wrong attitudes towards concentration; letting go; and meditating.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3071
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Pondera »

Image

Serotonin (naturally found in the brain. Responsible for feeling “happy” see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

Image

Psilocin (a derivative of psilocybin) - almost Identical to serotonin. Notice that the only difference is that the hydroxy group is simply found on another arm of the hexagonal ring.

A non addictive; non habit forming hallucinogenic substance with no withdrawal effects when use is stopped. Used in small doses to boost serotonin receptor activity in the treatment of anxiety, depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, and so forth. BUT NOT DOCTOR APPROVED AND STILL UNDER SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION!!! Don’t take because it resembles serotonin (for example).

Image

DMT (used in shamanism as “Ayahuasca” - used for soul searching and insight). Nearly identical to serotonin. Has extremely powerful effects and is known for its ability to “dissolve the ego”. Don’t ask me, I have never tried it and probably never will. I know my own limitations.

Image

Ibogaine (a hallucinogenic substance that has a 95% efficacy rate of helping people kick opioid addictions). I know personally because this substance has kept a very good friend of mine opioid free for four years. He is happier than ever with his life; financially stable; and devoted to helping others kick their heroin and opioid addictions.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
Dhamma Chameleon
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:55 am

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Dhamma Chameleon »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:27 am We cannot know. But we do know for sure is the Buddha prohibited taking such substances. Such karma is far worse than killing a terrorist bee.
He prohibited it for monks. For lay people buddhism does not contain commandments, just optional practice instructions. You can take the precepts, or not. The reason intoxicating substances are not advised is because they can lead to heedlessness, not because they inherently produce bad karma.

I think the intention with which one takes psychedelics (fun/healing/insight/...) makes a difference.
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3071
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Pondera »

Dhamma Chameleon wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:13 am
DooDoot wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:27 am We cannot know. But we do know for sure is the Buddha prohibited taking such substances. Such karma is far worse than killing a terrorist bee.
He prohibited it for monks. For lay people buddhism does not contain commandments, just optional practice instructions. You can take the precepts, or not. The reason intoxicating substances are not advised is because they can lead to heedlessness, not because they inherently produce bad karma.

I think the intention with which one takes psychedelics (fun/healing/insight/...) makes a difference.
Many pharmaceuticals are inspired by plant based life forms and fungal life forms.

Penicillin is a naturally occurring fungi mould. Imagine the world without penicillin.

But the pharmacies can’t bank off something you can grow in your closet or back yard.

For example, there is a very effective drug that treats HIV infection which has been synthesized for pennies by high school students in the Chemistry lab.

A very wealthy man bought the patent for the drug and priced it at a hundred dollars per pill. It is illegal to synthesize the drug your self - and it is not likely that the ordinary everyday person would ever seek to have the means.

It just goes to show how far certain people will seek to yield a profit off the suffering of others.

Psilocybin is a medicine. Like other medicines it may not have the intended effect when taken in large doses. Unlike other medicines it has the effect of personal discovery when taken in large doses.

In Canada it is not illegal to grow or sell fresh psilocybin mushrooms. It is illegal to dry them for the purposes of ingesting their contents.

Caffeine is far more addictive than psilocybin. Would any Buddhist prohibit the use of Green Tea?

Medicines that are non addictive and non-habit forming should not be made illegal by governments or prohibited by religious doctrine.

The world we live in is beginning to come around at least where psychedelics are concerned.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by DooDoot »

Dhamma Chameleon wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:13 am I think the intention with which one takes psychedelics (fun/healing/insight/...) makes a difference.
Unlikely (misguided; misinformed) intention changes the fact the substances can lead to brain damage & mental illness.
Dhamma Chameleon wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:13 am For lay people buddhism does not contain commandments, just optional practice instructions. You can take the precepts, or not.
Sounds like your own ideas. It appears a practicing Buddhist or "lay follower" takes the precepts. What would it mean for a lay follower to take the Triple Refuge but not follow the 5 precepts, particularly the Dhamma refuge? Why would a Buddhist lay follower follow a course of action that leads to hell? :shrug:
“In what way, Bhante, is one a lay follower?”

“When, Mahānāma, one has gone for refuge to the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, in that way one is a lay follower.”

“In what way, Bhante, is a lay follower virtuous?”

“When, Mahānāma, a lay follower abstains from the destruction of life, from taking what is not given, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, and from liquor, wine, and intoxicants, the basis for heedlessness, in that way a lay follower is virtuous.”

https://suttacentral.net/an8.25/en/bodhi
It’s not the case that Dhamma and what is not Dhamma
Na hi dhammo adhammo ca,

lead to the same results.
ubho samavipākino;

What is not Dhamma leads to hell,
Adhammo nirayaṃ neti,

while Dhamma takes you to a good place.
dhammo pāpeti suggatiṃ.

https://suttacentral.net/thag4.10/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5584
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by Kim OHara »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:08 am ...Sounds like your own ideas. It appears a practicing Buddhist or "lay follower" takes the precepts. ...
Reality check time:

Vietnam.jpg
Thailand.jpg

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance

Post by DooDoot »

Kim OHara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:23 am Reality check time:
Changes nothing. Cannot change the results of kamma.
Bhikkhus, possessing ten qualities, a female lay follower is deposited in hell as if brought there. What ten? (1) She destroys life … and (10) holds wrong view. Possessing these ten qualities, a female lay follower is deposited in hell as if brought there.

AN 10.214
Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower. Which five? He/she does not have conviction [in the Buddha’s Awakening]; is unvirtuous; is eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts protective charms & ceremonies, not kamma; and searches for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings there first. Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower.

AN 5.175
The impression is a belief is held that trolling Buddhist forums is similar to the Protestant belief in salvation via faith alone. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Post Reply