Cross-legged meditation and knee health

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anagaarika
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Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by anagaarika »

Hello my noble friends,

I wonder if it is possible to meditate for decades and not have health issues with knees. In a very near future, I will be moving away from an urban area to highlands - to a place where I don´t know anyone etc., which means that I should be able to significantly increase the time on the cushion. Currently I´m managing 1 to 2 hours on most days (sometimes more), but when I move I´m hoping to dedicate more time to the sitting practice. I´ve never meditated in any other posture. My flexibility isn´t good enough to the full lotus so I don´t force myself into any strenuous postures. There is no tension or pain when I meditate (my sessions are currently around 50 - 70 minutes), sometimes I choose the quarter lotus or even the "easy pose". I generally try to avoid any forceful torque on the knees.

Would you recommend alternating between different postures (sitting on a chair, lying down...) or would you say I´m okay as long as there is no pain? I´m aware that the absence of pain itself doesn´t mean that there isn´t any strain on the ligaments and so on... I might also add that I´m a rather athletic type (good runner and avid hiker) so I´m not just sitting all the time and hopefully I do something to strengthen the muscles around knees etc. Of course one shouldn´t cling too much to this body, but on the other hand I´m not even 30 yet and I´d like to stay able to walk without pain for at least some time :D
dharmacorps
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by dharmacorps »

Over time, people (particularly runners and physically active people) damage their knees. It just happens with age and is normal. While you can hurt yourself by meditating in a weird position, I think its fairly rare. I occasionally have knee issues, and the only thing I have discovered to help is use Burmese style sitting (legs not crossed ankle over knee but out more relaxed like 2 tree trunks next to each other). Not as stable, but it works. Also good for tall people.
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Mkoll
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by Mkoll »

I can't speak to long-term knee health into old age, but I can tell you my own personal experience. I injured something in the medial part of my right knee when I first got serious about practicing meditation. That was about 8 years ago and I still have issues with it. I've been meditating in a chair ever since. This happened because I was too zealous about sitting in cross-legged positions through pain and forcing myself into these positions in the first place when my body wasn't ready for it. In hindsight, this was an obvious mistake.

It sounds like you have a more balanced and aware approach than I did, so you should probably be fine. Still, be careful. And it definitely wouldn't hurt to add some walking and different sitting positions to your routine.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
anagaarika
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by anagaarika »

dharmacorps wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:07 pm Over time, people (particularly runners and physically active people) damage their knees.

Actually, from what I´ve read running can of course damage your knees if you don´t have suitable shoes, are overweight, have a bad running style etc., but if you eliminate these factors it can also be benefitial (it can strengthen the muscles around the knees and protect the ligaments). It also depends on the terrain (forest vs. street). And probably the frequency as well - mine has dropped to maybe twice or three times a week under auspicious conditions.
Mkoll wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:32 pm I've been meditating in a chair ever since
Do you manage to get as deep as in crossed-leg position? Or would you say that the change of posture affected the intensity of your meditation?
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Mkoll
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by Mkoll »

anagaarika wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:39 pm
Mkoll wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:32 pm I've been meditating in a chair ever since
Do you manage to get as deep as in crossed-leg position? Or would you say that the change of posture affected the intensity of your meditation?
I've never really gotten too deep for a sustained period of time, regardless of position. But that's a result of a deficit in sense restraint and energy, not position. :P

IMO, sit on the floor if you can but don't compromise your musculoskeletal system to do so.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Aloka
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by Aloka »

.

If you have knee pain, sit in a straight backed chair, or if you meditate outdoors take a folding stool to sit on.

All of the Buddhist centres I've been to in the past (both Vajrayana and Theravada) have a straight backed chair option as well as floor cushions in their meditation areas.. It's more important to keep your spine as comfortably straight as possible, than to be struggling with knee pain in a position which isn't helpful for your meditation practice.


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DooDoot
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Re: Cross-legged meditation and knee health

Post by DooDoot »

anagaarika wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:57 am I might also add that I´m a rather athletic type (good runner and avid hiker) so I´m not just sitting all the time and hopefully I do something to strengthen the muscles around knees etc.
Hi. I lived in a monastery for a number of years and never met any monks & folks with knee problems, apart from folks like myself who personally suffered a major knee injury merely three weeks prior to my booked long term departure and 11 weeks prior to discovering meditation. That said, i sat retreats intensively for four months without any issues (doing 2.5 hour sittings three times a day) and it was probably the later 6 week trekking in Nepal, which resulted in two dislocations on the trek, that caused my knee to start locking up when i returned to meditation. But what really messed things up was when i later did yoga intending to help my knee but yoga was an insidious disaster.

If you have no knee or leg injuries and are physically toned as you say then i cannot imagine any knee issues as long as you stick to natural easy postures and don't force anything. Full lotus is a superstition, trust me. Monks walk a lot. As long as you keep walking & hiking it should be OK. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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