what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

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what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

they are mostly not effective because mood is a mental phenomenon
3
8%
if used under the administration and supervision of a healthcare professional, they can be effective
10
27%
there are better therapies found outside of western medicine
4
11%
blind breaking in supposedly placebo controlled randomized trials invalidates the majority of psychotropic drug studies
2
5%
there is virtually no difference between recreational drugs and legal drugs
1
3%
these drugs treat symptoms without fixing the causes
8
22%
dhamma can't solve all your problems
3
8%
the mind is an epiphenomenon of the brain
0
No votes
the brain is an epiphenomenon of the mind
1
3%
other
5
14%
 
Total votes: 37

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salayatananirodha
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what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by salayatananirodha »

i may not have captured all of the opinions possible so i added 'other'

[update:] two people appear to have voted for "these drugs treat symptoms without fixing the causes" but this option originally said "there is nothing immoral or unethical about taking psychotropic medications". i edited this one because i thought it was kind of obvious
Last edited by salayatananirodha on Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


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Pondera
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by Pondera »

I’ve witnessed how the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms in micro-doses is a very effective treatment for anxiety.
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

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Inedible
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by Inedible »

If you are at the point where a psychiatrist is ready to prescribe medication, you should take it. Not necessarily a GP or "family practice" doctor, but a specialist. A GP might just give you a script and hope you go away. At this point, it is probably too late for supplements, herbs, sunshine, diet, and exercise. The medication should be in combination with therapy and a full treatment plan rather than just expecting to be on the pills for the rest of your life.
SarathW
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by SarathW »

Can we use drugs (ice etc) instead of psychotropic medication?
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robertk
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by robertk »

Just a general thought: Are these surveys effective when you can choose every one of the 10 options?
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salayatananirodha
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by salayatananirodha »

SarathW wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 am Can we use drugs (ice etc) instead of psychotropic medication?
literally idk what the difference is between street amphetamine and adderall (prescription). thats just one example
robertk wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:43 am Just a general thought: Are these surveys effective when you can choose every one of the 10 options?
do you think people would mostly vote dishonestly? several of these options conflict with one another
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
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salayatananirodha
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by salayatananirodha »

Pondera wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:26 am I’ve witnessed how the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms in micro-doses is a very effective treatment for anxiety.
yeah, and i mean you get people who take drugs because something is missing in their life but its considered 'just getting high'
but there's more to it than that
and the war on drugs has restricted legitimate drug therapies (marijuana for example)

but why cant dhamma solve all one's problems
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
DarrenM
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by DarrenM »

Where is the option that ‘Dhamma can solve all of your problems’?
“Householder, you have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick, but you shouldn’t rest content with the thought, ‘We have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick.’ So you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”
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sphairos
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by sphairos »

Psychological diseases are diseases like physical/bodily ones. They need to be treated in the same way : with therapy, medications etc.

Another reason why they are diseases/illnesses is that you cannot heal them yourself. For instance, in your case, you likely cannot get out of depression on you own, without antidepressants etc. I strongly suggest you take them .

And some depressions are extremly treatment and drug resistent , only some combination of therapy, exercise, special drugs (or even psychedelics) can help.

This is basic medical thinking. Diseases should be treated accordingly.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by salayatananirodha »

DarrenM wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:05 am Where is the option that ‘Dhamma can solve all of your problems’?
thats a good one, i forgot to include it, but 'other'
and some of the other options i think pertain to dhamma
sphairos wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:37 am Psychological diseases are diseases like physical/bodily ones. They need to be treated in the same way : with therapy, medications etc.

Another reason why they are diseases/illnesses is that you cannot heal them yourself. For instance, in your case, you likely cannot get out of depression on you own, without antidepressants etc. I strongly suggest you take them .

And some depressions are extremly treatment and drug resistent , only some combination of therapy, exercise, special drugs (or even psychedelics) can help.

This is basic medical thinking. Diseases should be treated accordingly.
you distinguish between psychological disease (dis-ease) and physical or bodily disease but you insist that treating the body is necessary for a non-bodily or non-physical disease?
dont let me misrepresent you tho, if thats not what you meant you can explain.
i dont dispute that a brain can show up on a brain scan and show signs of having depression or whatever other mental illness, but i dispute that this brain is the origin of those conditions
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
SteRo
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by SteRo »

The problem lies in the intentionality of taking drugs which is based on the illusion of real mental states. Principally all illusory mentality is based on the flux of chemical materiality, so there is no difference between the effect of chemical drugs and the effect of natural chemicals in the brain. But since the illusion of mentality necessarily entails the illusion of 'I am' judgement and intentionality associate and cement illusion.

Having said that generally "thinking about [whatever]" only cements the illusion of 'I am' and mentality. That however does not mean "stop thinking" because "stop thinking" is connected with intentionality and thus also cements the illusion of 'I am' and mentality.
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sphairos
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by sphairos »

salayatananirodha wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:00 am
Psychological diseases are treated by psychological measures : psychotherapy, psychiatry, psychoactive drugs.

It is not a philosophical question, it's medical.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by Crazy cloud »

sphairos wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:07 pm
salayatananirodha wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:00 am
Psychological diseases are treated by psychological measures : psychotherapy, psychiatry, psychoactive drugs.

It is not a philosophical question, it's medical.
And sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they do even more harm to the patients. They hardly go to the root cause, but focuses in on symptoms and altering the chemical flow in the body.

And when I say that they sometimes get it right, I like to add my own question; right for who? The psychotherapist, the pharmacist, the patient, the politician, the law, the society, the stigma, the taboos, and so on ...

Ant disease should be treated with care and compassion, not the powers that be.

Edit: Voted 2
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seeker242
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by seeker242 »

Crazy cloud wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 4:02 pm They hardly go to the root cause, but focuses in on symptoms and altering the chemical flow in the body.
And when the root cause is biological, altering the biology is entirely appropriate. :smile:
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Re: what are your thoughts on taking psychotropic medications for mood disorders?

Post by Crazy cloud »

seeker242 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:44 am
Crazy cloud wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 4:02 pm They hardly go to the root cause, but focuses in on symptoms and altering the chemical flow in the body.
And when the root cause is biological, altering the biology is entirely appropriate. :smile:
If there is one who has total knowledge of the flow, then yes, but since there is no one that has it, no one should try controlling it.

The root cause is not just biological, it is psycho/bio/cultural. That's a holistic take on this mess.

Buddhas teaching is the best way to control it, and that means to do something with the controller.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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